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Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Printable Version

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Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Petitioner - 06-07-2011

' Wrote:The problem here is that they created a rule they decided to enforce. This rule made a few factions suffer already who had requests that were as acceptable as this one and I really think it would be unfair for those who have been denied their app or couldn't post it because of that rule.
' Wrote:As much as I like your group, I think it would have been better if you waited till that rule is changed or till you would be able to SRP your caps and use the merc ID.

Dunno what else to say. Good luck and I hope I'll have some time to discuss some events.
Nobody will ever get past this rule if someone doesn't force the issue. There's absolutely no legitimate reason that this request should not be accepted that I can think of, and if anyone has one I'd love to hear it.

OFPID was created to cut down on needless and pointless faction requests, or so the official word is. This is neither needless or pointless. So we're forcing the issue. Hopefully, others that have put as much time and effort into something as we did with EDGE will follow our example. Hope that clears some things up.


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - chopper - 06-07-2011

Quote:4.4. Temporary and Permanent Hostility

It might happen that a certain third party by intentional and continuous interference endangers or even prevents the Enterprise from fulfilling its contract in a certain area. In such cases the Enterprise reserves itself a right to declare temporary hostility towards the said third party for the duration of the contract or until the hostile activity stops. Third parties declared hostile will be officially informed and given chance to cease their activities before the lethal force will be used. Additionally, the Enterprise will always remain hostile towards the Nomads and destroy targets of opportunity whenever possible.

You can't reserve a right to do something against your own ID.
Since BHG ID was terribly abused in previous versions, it was changed so that you can only fulfill contracts now.
You can't hunt targets if you are not going to claim their deaths. I've heard multiple examples of your vengeful activity.

Another fact is that you claim to be betrayed by the Bounty Hunter Core, yet you use that same ID for your capital ships.
How do you explain this in RP? Bounty Hunter Core ID is not a Bounty Hunter Guard ID. They wage war on the Order. Using it and saying "Peace, Order" is like having a Corsair who is neutral towards Hessians and Outcasts.

As for ganking and other stuff, it is not against the rules, and I see nothing wrong with it - as long as you are trying to earn money with it.

These problems aside, I think well of your group, and I am impressed by your activity and player count.
Your bunch deserves to be official much more then some other, already official, factions. So I am supporting this, if you provide satisfying answers to my feedback. Thanks.





Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Alley - 06-07-2011

' Wrote:Nobody will ever get past this rule if someone doesn't force the issue. There's absolutely no legitimate reason that this request should not be accepted that I can think of, and if anyone has one I'd love to hear it.

OFPID was created to cut down on needless and pointless faction requests, or so the official word is. This is neither needless or pointless. So we're forcing the issue. Hopefully, others that have put as much time and effort into something as we did with EDGE will follow our example. Hope that clears some things up.

Is the point to be able to even get past it actually
Anyway I think we should just wait untill the admin team give an hint to EDGE if their request is accepted or allowed to compete for the OFPID slot or stay unofficial forever before we continue arguing on the OFPID rule.


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Petitioner - 06-07-2011

' Wrote:You can't reserve a right to do something against your own ID.
Since BHG ID was terribly abused in previous versions, it was changed so that you can only fulfill contracts now.
You can't hunt targets if you are not going to claim their deaths. I've heard multiple examples of your vengeful activity.

Another fact is that you claim to be betrayed by the Bounty Hunter Core, yet you use that same ID for your capital ships.
How do you explain this in RP? Bounty Hunter Core ID is not a Bounty Hunter Guard ID. They wage war on the Order. Using it and saying "Peace, Order" is like having a Corsair who is neutral towards Hessians and Outcasts.

As for ganking and other stuff, it is not against the rules, and I see nothing wrong with it - as long as you are trying to earn money with it.

These problems aside, I think well of your group, and I am impressed by your activity and player count.
Your bunch deserves to be official much more then some other, already official, factions. So I am supporting this, if you provide satisfying answers to my feedback. Thanks.
You've got some very valid points here, but I feel that there have been some misunderstandings.

Regardless of what our RP info might say, we don't break the rules of the server. As well all know, rules and RP are two completely, unrelated things. Just as it is good RP for a navy battleship to mortar that ptrans pirating the level 31 starflea 1k away from Norfolk, but it is against the rules for it to do so, so is it good RP for us to hunt the people that have given us more grief than anyone else, but as it is against the server rules, we don't do so.

We explain using the BHG Core ID for our caps because, a) there's no other option, and b) they were constructed by us or purchased from privatized bounty hunter captains, which we'd explain OORPly as indies. If you disagree with our RP then please address it directly, rather than citing the RP of another faction, which claims to be separate from the BHG (meaning the Core, here).

And as for ganking. Say more-friends'ing. "I got ganked by some stupid lolwuts earlier." "I got more-friends'd by some stupid lolwuts earlier." Compare the two. We do our best to play fair, but sometimes we're forced to more-friends certain people who show that they have no interest in returning the favor. We're far from the only people that engage in this activity, and we're some of the most fair when doing so. Besides, it's RP. In the real world, the US military doesn't care that they have five tanks and the Taliban might have had a squad of four guys with AK-47s. RP is intended to emulate the real world.


On the whole, thanks for your positive feedback and the well wishes. I hope that you got satisfactory answers, because our goal is to make things fun for everyone we interact with; that includes OOC interaction, like this thread is.


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - r3vange - 06-07-2011

My firsts impressions of the EDGE were less than favorable. As KoЯney pointed. Overkilling otherwise known as '€œganking'€ was common during my encounters with them. And as a official BHG member I do not feel like giving my thumbs up for this faction. HOWEVER! I see that that they did put effort into writing this application as well the fact that I see people willing to turn this faction around and prove both its PvP (stop being hypocrites and admit it'€™s a major factor) and RP capabilities. For now I am neutral I will away further encounters to give my approval or disapproval. Only time will tell if EDGE will manage to integrate in the existing BHG/Discovery structure. As I said I except further encounters and good luck with your endeavors


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Bloom - 06-07-2011


I like the writeup, you got tons of activity, the Core and ID problem have already been "answered" (I don't agree with those explanations, but it's just me).

That being said, the actual, in game, interactions weren't always good. I've been told that you have a lot of new members, that are inexperienced and what not...well, ganking and re-engaging, while uncool, isn't against any, written, rule, so I guess your fine.

I really don't know what to say. I don't support this, but don't oppose it either.


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Torch Rose - 06-07-2011

From my experience with your faction, you're more concerned over the almighty bluemessage then anything else. I say this, because I was in New York trying to help out a new person with the technology rules (It was a LPI IFF'd Freelancer Valkerie with mixed guns) When an EDGE Manta popped out of the lane, went "OMG pirate within 5K of a lane DAI" and engaged.


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Petitioner - 06-08-2011

' Wrote:From my experience with your faction, you're more concerned over the almighty bluemessage then anything else. I say this, because I was in New York trying to help out a new person with the technology rules (It was a LPI IFF'd Freelancer Valkerie with mixed guns) When an EDGE Manta popped out of the lane, went "OMG pirate within 5K of a lane DAI" and engaged.
In essence, this sort of thing should never happen. We're definitely working on this, and as Bloom said, we have a lot of newer members. Some don't speak perfect English, either. Sometimes even our older members slip up, and we're certainly trying to make sure that all our interactions are fun. I really can't do more than apologize and say it won't happen again, though I don't know that for certain. I'd ask people to keep an open mind towards us, even when they have bad encounters with some of us, because, like everyone ought to be doing, we're always looking to improve and for the most part, if you work with us, we'll work with you to have fun. There's no excuse for that sort of thing happening, however, and we/I really are/am sorry.


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Bloom - 06-08-2011


Well, that's the kind of attitude I really like around here. Everyone makes mistakes, it's important to accept them and try to fix them, rather than go "no u" (no need for examples).

I already started liking you more :laugh:.


Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - EDG Enterprise - 06-08-2011

Attention: Any member of the EDGE is allowed to post here. However, they are only expressing their personal opinions. Only messages sent from this account express the official position of the Board of Executives.

To Alley (concerning the ID limitation): We are obviously aware of "one ID one official faction" restriction. The reason why we chose the Bounty Hunter ID in November was simple. It was the only ID that would allow creation of a faction such as EDGE. In fact Bounty Hunters Guild is the closest faction to the EDGE. However, there are major differences. EDGE is in fact a lawful army for hire, while BHG is just a lose affiliation of lone hunters. While the Guild Core is also a sort of professional army, they are effectively not for hire and follow their hidden agendas. This being said, I want to stress that we would settle with Mercenary ID with a Special Roleplay Permission to use capital ships on it. There is even no need to use Bounty Hunter capital ships. I am pretty sure we could negotiate purchase of some capital ships from numerous factions. The main point is that we need an ID that allows use of capital ships or SRP that allows to use them on mercenary ID. I have clearly said that the thing is to be discussed here and various solutions might be chosen.

To Korny (concerning Orcas shooting fighter): Our members by a rule do not hunt lone fighters in gunboats as it is just ineffective. Even medicore fighter pilot can outrun any gunship or gunboat. I am pretty sure that if such situation happened it was just the last stage of a bigger engagement. In any case we are always willing to receive feedback in form of PM. Send us PM with screens or chat-logs and any member acting inappropriately will be dealt with.

To Elven (concerning not being a BHG and using BHG technology): We are not really attached to the BHG ship-line. The only BHG ships we would miss are Bottlenose and Thresher. Of course the perfect solution would be to have our own shipline. But I am sure we could negotiate purchase of ships from various factions. Although, I think there is nothing bad in a non-BHG faction using BHG shipline, like in the case of Hellfire Legion using Lane Hacker technology. Nonetheless, if we get confirmation that the SRP to use capital ships will be given to our faction upon acceptance of our application, then the whole request would be based on mercenary ID as stated in the synopsis.

To Montezuma (concerning Core Ships): Previous answers partially apply to your feedback. In roleplay we consist of splinter groups that left the BHG and Core along with their ships and various angry people wanting a payback or just disliking pirates, mainly miners. When it comes to the Core capital ships you're completely right. Mako does not fit for the role of a carrier. The best ship for this role would be a Liberty Carrier. The whole thing is about the very possibility to use capital ships. We don't really care for the ship-line, although BHG one usually fit our profile, except for the Mako of course.

To Chopper (concerning the temporary hostility right): You brought very important point here that I wish to discuss. I call it Mercenaries Wars. A situation like this happened twice. First when Reavers were hunting us for the Lane Hackers and second when Shinobi Agency was also doing it. In case of Reavers there was not much of a problem as most active ones were bountied anyway. The issue came up with the Shinobi Agency. During three days they killed I think ten of our new recruits. Aeqvinox send a formal warning to Shinobi and the next day our players killed couple of Shinobies. Back then I was away from FL. When I returned I ordered to cease any operations against Shinobi Agency in Liberty and send a query to the admins whether we can, having a sufficient explanation and roleplay background, attack a hostile group or not. I haven't received any answer yet. But I think it is sensible that any faction should be able to react in similar manner in similar circumstances. They killed dozens of us but we can't fight back as there is no bounty on them. This is a bit silly. Apart from this incident with Shinobi Agency we have paid attention to ensure that there was no killing without a bounty. Our vast archives of bounty claims can confirm my words. If ever happens something like this, just send us PM with screens and logs and members who did it will be dealt with.

To Chopper (concerning relation of the BHG ID and the Guild Core ID): Wiki states that the Core ID is effectively the Guard ID. So we treat it as such for the time being.

To Bloom and Killer Rose (concerning inappropriate behaviour): I will repeat once again. If anything wrong happens send us PM. If you send us PM it means you genuinely wish to give us a feedback. All such messages are treated seriously and carefully checked. Some of our members got minced by me after the feedback we received in PM. When the faction has more than 5-6 people in it is impossible to control everyone. But if you only care to post the feedback on forum for it to get it attention, then it means you just want payback and do not care about the improvement of the other faction. The first we really appreciate, and several people who sent it to us can confirm it, the second we just ignore.

In short:

We don't care about any particular ID.
We just want access to capital ships.
Be it on BHG ID or Mercenary ID with SRP to use capital ships.
We don't care about any particular shipline.
We can negotiate purchase of our ships from a Mercenary ID.
But we don't see a problem of having SRP to use BHG ship-line (like Hellfire Legion).

replies by Guszaban