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connect the indy systems together - Printable Version

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connect the indy systems together - Omicron - 01-29-2012

Put jumpholes far away from each other to not disrupt trade but still allowing to move ships around if someone do not want/can't use house space.


connect the indy systems together - Ursus - 01-29-2012

' Wrote:Actually Cassini was always intended to be a bridge between Yukon and Galileo, there's two non Rogue bases in there, one's DSE and one's Junker. The JH's have been moved, I suspect that ahd to do with trade balance.
I'm aware of the two bases in there however it's been a Rogue guard system for a long time and it would be rude to make it a throughway. Also the planetary framgeents in there now make it impossible to cross (I did it in my Titanic this afternoon and will never do that again).

Quote:As for making a JH to baffin from Yukon, that would be silly. You'd have to completely rebalance trade in order to make it work.
No you'd only have to rebalance trade for the routes that terminated on the path, since through-routes would be the same number of hops or longer.

Quote:As for Oita, just because the IND have been there for not much time, doesn't mean we don't get an input into what goes where in our system. Xoria dictates where the JH's go in order to avoid screwing up trade, fortunately at the moment Oita provides no shortcuts worth taking your proposition would change that.
I was responding to the argument that ownership was the only factor. Hell the release is still in beta so IND presence isn't even established in lore yet. I agree it matters, but its not like the end of the discussion.

As for this proposal in particular, there would need to be a stepping stone between Galileo and Quebec for the hop-count to stay the same as Colorado-New York-Texas. Oita is right there, is the obvious candidate (Alaska, Ellesmere, and Minnesota won't work for different reasons), which is why I proposed it.

On a general point though, Oita should be directly acccessible. For one thing, no guard system should be a terminal point on a trade route, yet the bases in Oita are buy and sell points for many different commodities. It needs to be publicly accessible or have inventory reduced to oxygen and water like all of the other guard stations. Furthermore Oita is the only player faction guard system that requires entry through a lawful guard systems--you have to be friendly to at least one police or navy guard faction in order to use it regularly (as opposed to infrequently)--and it should be harrassable by enemy factions with somewhat direct access (without having to fight through another house guard faction first). Putting a jumphole from Galileo into Oita solves both problems, and also provides a balanced way to connect the northern and southern independent systems.




connect the indy systems together - Reverend Del - 01-29-2012

' Wrote:I was responding to the argument that ownership was the only factor. Hell the release is still in beta so IND presence isn't even established in lore yet. I agree it matters, but its not like the end of the discussion.

As for this proposal in particular, there would need to be a stepping stone between Galileo and Quebec for the hop-count to stay the same as Colorado-New York-Texas. Oita is right there, is the obvious candidate (Alaska, Ellesmere, and Minnesota won't work for different reasons), which is why I proposed it.

On a general point though, Oita should be directly acccessible. For one thing, no guard system should be a terminal point on a trade route, yet the bases in Oita are buy and sell points for many different commodities. It needs to be publicly accessible or have inventory reduced to oxygen and water like all of the other guard stations. Furthermore Oita is the only player faction guard system that requires entry through a lawful guard systems--you have to be friendly to at least one police or navy guard faction in order to use it regularly (as opposed to infrequently)--and it should be harrassable by enemy factions with somewhat direct access (without having to fight through another house guard faction first). Putting a jumphole from Galileo into Oita solves both problems, and also provides a balanced way to connect the northern and southern independent systems.


I agree with you, Oita could make a very good through system, and the IND shouldn't actually be bothered by traders wishing to dock our stations, as it would (inRP) bring us more cash by which to expand our business interests. That said, we don't have many enemies that would wish to attack us directly. But yes, now you've explained yourself properly I find myself in agreement with you. Oita could well be used like that, making even more opportunity for RP interactions.


connect the indy systems together - Echo 7-7 - 01-29-2012

Humboldt does actually have a purpose. It has two mining fields for which DSE receive a significant bonus on Copper and Silver.


Also, what's wrong with Oita being inaccessible? IND have permission to pass through Illinois anyway without a problem. It's no difficult task to get a neutral rep with LPI Guard.

Why can't Oita be a terminal point in a trade route, or any Guard system for tht matter? It makes plenty of RP sense for Oita to be the hub of IND's trading operations, since it is their headquarters after all. Furthermore, why should a semi-remote system like Oita be "harrassable" by enemy factions? What purpose would that serve? Camping a Jump Hole is far easier than searching an empty system.


connect the indy systems together - Linkus - 01-29-2012

Guard systems are a bit strange in terms of ownership right now, they aren't entirely in the realm of faction ownership anymore but the actual specifics still need sorted.

In terms of avoiding lawful space, I wouldn't go with this idea as it would decrease player interaction.
We want players to meet.
Pirates should meet traders, smugglers should meet lawful folks.
Why spread players out even further?


connect the indy systems together - Ursus - 01-29-2012

' Wrote:Also, what's wrong with Oita being inaccessible? IND have permission to pass through Illinois anyway without a problem. It's no difficult task to get a neutral rep with LPI Guard.
It's difficult if you're an unlawful faction that wants to attack the bases in Oita

Quote:Why can't Oita be a terminal point in a trade route, or any Guard system for tht matter?
For the same reason that you don't put mining fields in a guard system. It's hard for hostiles to get there and attack you, so they don't, and sooner or later you end up exploiting the fact that you are left alone. Go out in the same mean world that everybody uses when you need to make money. That is doubly true for Oita that is behind a house guard firewall.




connect the indy systems together - Echo 7-7 - 01-29-2012

' Wrote:It's difficult if you're an unlawful faction that wants to attack the bases in Oita

For the same reason that you don't put mining fields in a guard system. It's hard for hostiles to get there and attack you, so they don't, and sooner or later you end up exploiting the fact that you are left alone. Go out in the same mean world that everybody uses when you need to make money. That is doubly true for Oita that is behind a house guard firewall.

Having the system as a trading hub is completely different from it being a mining zone. If it was a mining zone, then yes, the miners could simply sit there and mine away without being threatened whatsoever. However, the only way for traders to make money is to move goods from one location to another. If a trader loiters in Oita, then yes, they are protected, but they are not making any money at all. Bear in mind that there are plenty of places you could loiter to get a similar amount of protection... such as remaining docked or sitting right next to any lawful base.


connect the indy systems together - ryoken - 01-29-2012

Through Casini would be bad i think. But i would love to see LR sitting there waiting for traders to try and pass through it.


connect the indy systems together - Syrus - 01-29-2012

Cassini as a bridge? Last time I went there - that'd be in .85 - there were 2-3 stationary cruisers blasting away at me. I don't think Guard systems should be "bridges", they are supposed to be hidden away. Otherwise create "guard areas" which are hidden away.

Anyway, I would love to see the Taus being connected to the Omegas and Sigmas without having to pass through house space (Bretonia, Kusari, Omicron Alpha). If you want to go from the Omegas to the Sigmas there's always the way through Theta, but there's nothing equal for the Taus.
I'd still suggest adding a system (primarly OC owned) between T37 and Alpha, which would maybe be connected to Beta as well (and erase the T37>Alpha JH). That'd put some more distance between the OC homeworld and their enemies and give a way to the Sigmas. Also connect that system or Beta to one of the northern Kusari Systems for "easy access" into Kusari (maybe make the system a fighting ground for OC and BD? I heard they don't like each other that much...).
For a way from Taus to Omegas I'd go for something like "Humboldt -> O3/7" connection. Something along those lines. But that's also quite "risky" and hard to balance I guess. Also a big impact RP-wise.

The Baffin-Yukon connection would be interesting imo.

And what about an easier access from the Sigmas to the deeper Omicrons?
Though that's also debatable.

Still feels a bit limited around some areas.


connect the indy systems together - Ursus - 01-29-2012

When I had my thresher I would get into the Taus through the Omicrons. Kind of hairy around Alpha but completely doable, even for BH ID/IFF ship. Of course people that got close enough to see it was a Thresher tended to evacuate the area:)