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+--- Thread: Guild Wars 2 (/showthread.php?tid=74331)
Guild Wars 2 - BaconSoda - 02-08-2012
Yes it's been heard of.:)
Also, more classes is not better. If you read developer interviews and commentary, they talk forever about how Guild Wars 1 was loaded full of useless and unbalanced things. Balance was nearly impossible because everyone could do everything. The Assassin was very cool at release, but then Elementalists Shadow Stepping was hard to balance, Warriors even harder, and Monks even harder. There were over 2000 skills. How many are actually used? Very few. Meanwhile, casual players trying to play the game found it impossible; during beta testing of Utopia they found this. One story they give is of a group of eight people leaving their office early with claims that the game was impossible because they honestly didn't want to sift through 2000+ skills to find 8 which fit well together. That's not quite a problem anymore, while depth still exists in traits and equipment choices.
Guild Wars 1 had a lot of problems. The developers failed utterly in making the game they wanted to make. You can realize this when you take an interview about Guild Wars 1 pre-release and an interview about Guild Wars 2 pre-release and they sound almost identical. Now that game is forced. There's no room for MMO conditioning to sneak its way in again.
Also, the main web site, the official wiki, and Guild Wars 2 Guru are a much better source of information than youtube.
Guild Wars 2 - Leo - 05-05-2012
Major gravedig/bump. I played the weekend beta last weekend and let me say...it was impressive. Anyone else play in it?
~Leo
Guild Wars 2 - Silmathien - 05-05-2012
Hope the server can withstand the players stampede.:D
Guild Wars 2 - Error - 05-05-2012
' Wrote:Major gravedig/bump. I played the weekend beta last weekend and let me say...it was impressive. Anyone else play in it?I did, and I was positively surprised, to be honest - I hadn't looked much at trailers/the class and race videos before I played in the previous beta weekend. Can't wait for the full release now.:)
~Leo
Though I must say that it did confuse me quite a bit when I played it for the first few hours, as so much of the interface makes it seem familiar to anyone who has played GW1, but it's a completely different game - so as someone who's played GW1 since release I had to spend most of the time I played the beta weekend relearning old habits from GW1 such as trying to click on things to attack/interact with them or to walk places.
The only negative thing I saw about it was that some of the Charr NPC names that made me cringe throughout the beta playthrough - it seemed like someone had gotten a (terrible) furry character name generator and used them on 5% of the Charr through the beta explorable areas; "Scout Fursta Farhunter", for example.:P
I guess someone ran out of time (and imagination) on those during development - luckily, it's not that bad. It's just a few characters here and there, as I said. The rest was great fun.
Has it been announced when the next beta weekend is going to be?
Guild Wars 2 - Leo - 05-05-2012
' Wrote:Has it been announced when the next beta weekend is going to be?
Not yet, and I feel like I need an IV drip to keep my cravings down.
~Leo
P.S. I'm going through withdraws...
Guild Wars 2 - NixOlympica - 07-21-2012
It's time to bump this a little bit.
Yesterday, the last BWE (Beta weekend) 3 started. A huge update is the addition of the last two races the Sylvari (salads) and Asura (Squirrels).
I am blown off. In how many MMO can you spend hours doing a jumping puzzle? Yeah in GW 2 you can.
Here is a link to my screens.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/68hm1j7f7khifqo/AjBPRxEXOW
Guild Wars 2 - Ortog - 07-21-2012
Long time I waited for this game, being a vet from GW 1, since the fst beta, I was in all Beta Events of GW2 ...I must say that this is an answer for my prayers as it completly break the MMOs stagnant model and inovates in continuity.
Naysayers are naysayers and wow/wow type adicts and enthusiasts will continue to raid grind their dungeons up to oblivion, but for the rest of us tired of the grinding vicious circle its a blessing and , since I dont remember when, a world to live in.
Guild Wars 2 - _FUNK - 07-22-2012
I was a pretty dedicated GW1 player (got about 5000 hours of gameplay throughout accounts and characters overall) and I must say GW2 was the game I had been waiting for for years... Our whole community was on toes for quite a while.
Eventually we tried the Betas and most of the hardcore players sold their accounts or just weren't happy. I was a firm supporter of the game until the last couple of BWEs, when I realized I wanted to open up Disco FL more than GW2.
The amazing, unmatched and unique PvP gameplay of the first game is completely gone.:(I kept insisting that the game will be fixed, but it won't. A person that is actually spending their time playing a product like ToR (the nerve Bioware had to release that piece of crap...) will perhaps be drooling over GW2. Same goes for WoW players (I've been a WoW player myself for a while as well). But regardless, the game mechanics are bound to become boring over a longer period of time. Everything about the game is awesome, everything except the PvP.
Our forum has enough material to publish a book with detailed content analysis done exclusively on GW2 and the juxtaposition of GW2 and GW1. It is what it is - ArenaNet (/bow) need to make money, had they kept the mechanics of the previous game that wouldn't have been possible. Their target audience is exactly WoW and ToR players, but not GW1 players that much.
I am sure you won't agree as you are feeling as I was before I spent a week playing the game. It really IS awesome, it's just not the Guild Wars 2 we were promised. It's not nearly as complex as it used to be and that will put off hardcore players. Tactical thinking and preparation are more or less left in perspective, while the focus is more on arcade-like combat. The game reminds of a mixture between MOBA games and FPSs.
I will be brave and I will say that GW2 is not the game it was supposed to be.
Guild Wars 2 - BaconSoda - 07-24-2012
' Wrote:I was a pretty dedicated GW1 player (got about 5000 hours of gameplay throughout accounts and characters overall) and I must say GW2 was the game I had been waiting for for years... Our whole community was on toes for quite a while.
Eventually we tried the Betas and most of the hardcore players sold their accounts or just weren't happy. I was a firm supporter of the game until the last couple of BWEs, when I realized I wanted to open up Disco FL more than GW2.
The amazing, unmatched and unique PvP gameplay of the first game is completely gone.:(I kept insisting that the game will be fixed, but it won't. A person that is actually spending their time playing a product like ToR (the nerve Bioware had to release that piece of crap...) will perhaps be drooling over GW2. Same goes for WoW players (I've been a WoW player myself for a while as well). But regardless, the game mechanics are bound to become boring over a longer period of time. Everything about the game is awesome, everything except the PvP.
Our forum has enough material to publish a book with detailed content analysis done exclusively on GW2 and the juxtaposition of GW2 and GW1. It is what it is - ArenaNet (/bow) need to make money, had they kept the mechanics of the previous game that wouldn't have been possible. Their target audience is exactly WoW and ToR players, but not GW1 players that much.
I am sure you won't agree as you are feeling as I was before I spent a week playing the game. It really IS awesome, it's just not the Guild Wars 2 we were promised. It's not nearly as complex as it used to be and that will put off hardcore players. Tactical thinking and preparation are more or less left in perspective, while the focus is more on arcade-like combat. The game reminds of a mixture between MOBA games and FPSs.
I will be brave and I will say that GW2 is not the game it was supposed to be.
Quite the contrary, Guild Wars was not the game it was supposed to be. In fact, Arena.Net said that pretty bluntly when they announced Guild Wars 2 back in 2007. It's those very mechanics that the minority of Guild Wars players love that made the game unsustainable and created Guild Wars 2. I've got about 4,200 hours in Guild Wars and I've played the Ranger to level 49 and 33 in the betas, just in case you doubted me.
Arena.Net originally imagined a world like Dark Age of Camelot where people played together instead of alongside each other. That concept is so mind-staggeringly different that the game has to make you unlearn all the crap MMOs have taught everyone. I was running around the Brisbain Wildlands with my brother and we saw a group of people. That's not the important part. In the event where you have to confront the Sinister Triad, the Ebon Knight representing the Nightmare Court used a skill that pulled us all in. This is the important part. In World vs World, there's a skill Champion Keep Lords use where they pull everyone near to them and then stomp, downing us. In that level 25 zone, I'm learning that there are some bossed which can pull me in and how to react to that. Later, when they kill me, I'll know what to do. This game is so different that it teaches us all the way through to the Gendarran Fields. I don't know if that's where it stops teaching, but literally the entirety of the beta so far is a tutorial and most people haven't passed it.
You talk about complexity, but what is the difference between Power Attack and Furious Axe? It's literally a trait. There are thousands of skills in Guild Wars and they can really be split into a few categories: enchantment, hex, melee attack, ranged attack, spirit, signet, shout, stance, and spell/chant, and skill (glyph/trap/ashes/etc.). Most of them do the same thing with minor differences. This is what traits do. Traits are those minor differences. That is the complexity of build making in Guild Wars 2.
Also, if by unique you mean exclusive and intimidating, then I agree with what you say about PvP. I dare you right now to go into Lion's Arch or whatever and ask when the last time anyone GvGed was. Look at how many people even respond. The "hardcore" PvPers in Guild Wars were an absolute minority to the rest of the game. The reason why was that it was a completely different game. Even if you were really good at Random Arenas, Fort Aspenwood, or Jade Quarry, you have to relearn the entire game to play GvG or HA. Most people won't do that. If you look at any successful esport, the base game is the same. The execution of strategy skyrockets, but a six-pool-rush is always a six-pool-rush. If you're good at playing Zerg, you can get out of newb servers and play the game with more skilled players without relearning what you're doing but by still increasing your skill ceiling. That's the kind of PvP Guild Wars 2 has. If you're good, entering a tournament isn't a completely new thing. The maps are the same maps and the strategies are the same strategies. It's called accessibility. That's something MMOs have never had.
But I know you don't care about that. You just wanted another Guild Wars. That's not the game they wanted to make. If it was, they'd have kept making standalones for it. What's funny is that there's a thousand World of Warcraft and The Old Republic players making this same kind of post on their own forum. Guild Wars 2 isn't pandering to anyone to make money. It's the game they wanted to make from the beginning. It's the game they wanted Guild Wars to be but the players refused to play.
Guild Wars 2 - _FUNK - 07-24-2012
Interesting arguments about the first game, but not really. Guild Wars was not a failure, as you are making it sound like. It was a VERY good game, which had a very complex PvP system. A simple example is the fact that in Guild Wars 2 there are no cross-profession combos. You seem like a smart chap - imagine how hard it is to balance that and then compare it to balancing core professions without any mixtures. Compare the sheer depths of the two games. This trait system is OK, but it's not really impressive. During the beta events I played all the professions, ran through the dungeons and whatnot, it was all in good fun. I admire what they have done with the PvE, and this is probably the aspect of the game that I will focus on. But the PvP... let's be honest - there are just about 3 maps and they are all the same. You call this accessibility, I call this a dumb-down. Accessibility is just another word that you would use to mask the facts - that guild wars 2 is a game that will attract stupider players. That minority you are talking about - those were clever guys and they knew exactly why they love the game so much (gw1). Alongside my guild we managed to reach our peak and it was #4 in the world for a while, top 20 for a longer while. The level of skill you needed to posses for such high level of play was what attracted many. I've played with organized teams and with more noobish, but still capable teams. The difference and gap in skill is IMMENSE.
Now, GW2 is very accessible, yes, but that is also one of its downsides. Now, more than ever, it has to appeal to as much people as possible. And it does. It even appeals to me, it just doesn't touch me in that special place. And you can trust me on this one - the first game was more or less a grand part of my life and I love ArenaNet. I've waited for the second game for years, since it was first announced.
Furthermore, you mentioned a couple of skills in defense of your arguments about the complexity of Guild Wars 2. While you are more or less right in terms of the classification of skills, GW2 does not offer such freedom for creating your own, even unique build. You have a locked set of skills which change as you swap weapons. Initially I loved this, but now it's just boring. I played the ranger with all the possible combinations and the complexity here comes off skill combos, which are not nearly as satisfying as making a random cross-profession combo and then coming up with a build that actually works well and that is going to be unexpected by others for a while.
The treat system right now appears to be interesting, but in reality battles are very fast. With my thief, during this last weekend, I just picked a gimmicky build and I could down other players in 2-3 seconds. So what I am trying to say here, is that GW2 is much more of a shooter-like game than a COORPG, like the first one was. The beauty of Prophecies came with the requirement of incredible team work, synchronization and cooperation. Now it's much more zerg than tactics.
I spent a good time defending GW2's mechanics in our community, as the older players didn't really like it that much (part of their reasoning has been mentioned here). I still have hopes that they will introduce interesting PvP, but as it is now - there is no real GvG. And this is Guild Wars. It's about wars between guilds. A 5 player vs 5 player capture and hold map has nothing to do with war. It's nothing more than the Dominion mode of LoL.
Though I have to admit the PvE is great. I had so much fun in the Ascalonian Catacombs, I felt that the teamwork of the first game was somehow converted into the PvE aspect of GW2.
edit: Also, I don't want to appear as some enraged Gw2 hater, I still like the game very much. But they must figure out a way to introduce real PvP. Their decision to break out of the holy trinity pattern was brave, but it also means that without a dedicated healing class the battles will just end very quickly and often it will be down to just a few seconds. Currently the skills are MUCH more alike in between different professions. Everyone has dodge, everyone has some kind of pushback/teleport skill. It's a lot more uniform than before.