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+--- Thread: Maneuverability ratings? (/showthread.php?tid=81183)
Maneuverability ratings? - Ingenious - 06-02-2012
' Wrote:I think there are different turning rates for up/down/sideways. Also things like how quickly it responds to input (how "snappy" the turn). Not sure this could all be summarized into a single number, or else somebody would have done it already.
There are 7 numbers. 3 dimensions of torque, 3 dimensions of max angular speed, and 1 rotation inertia. FL Stat only reports on turning left-right.
edit: for those who are concerned, this is Z-torque and Z-angular speed.
Maneuverability ratings? - Hielor - 06-02-2012
' Wrote:While this may seem like a good idea,the only ones primarily who would need this info,are the ones looking only for a pvp edge.( Gotta have the best ship,best armor,best weapons,etc...)You're absolutely right.
For those who truely rp , then the numbers mostly mean nothing. They may have their favorite ship(s),and roll with it how it was dealt to them.
Since this game is entirely about roleplay and the ship you fly should be irrelevant, then we should remove all ships from the mod other than the starflier. If someone wants to be a battleship captain they can just roleplay as such, and everyone can pretend they're actually a battleship, because the only reason they'd want a real battleship is for a pvp edge.
Please. We're playing a game in which we fight each other with space ships. If the maneuverability numbers being public results in everyone gravitating toward a single ship, then that ship was overpowered and needed to be nerfed anyway. The balance between maneuverability/survivability/firepower should already be there, and it's already available to people who are looking for a "pvp edge." Putting it on the infocard will just make it a lot easier for normal people to find it without combing through config files.
' Wrote:There are 7 numbers. 3 dimensions of torque, 3 dimensions of max angular speed, and 1 rotation inertia. FL Stat only reports on turning left-right.There are 9 numbers actually defined in the ini file:
3 axes of torque
3 axes of drag
3 axes of inertia.
These numbers by themselves are useless. There are six useful numbers that can be derived from these:
3 axes of maximum angular velocity -- you divide an axis's torque by its drag, that gives you the maximum angular velocity in that axis, in radians per second.
3 axes of "rate to reach maximum angular velocity" -- divide an axis's torque by its inertia. That gives you a number indicating how fast the ship reaches maximum angular velocity in an axis. Never figured out what the units are, but higher is better.
As an example, I'll quote myself from last October (4.85 numbers) since I don't want to do the math again:
' Wrote:Clydesdale:
steering_torque = 54000.000000, 54000.000000, 75000.000000
angular_drag = 60000.000000, 60000.000000, 60000.000000
rotation_inertia = 16800.000000, 16800.000000, 16800.000000
Max turn rate, pitch: 54000/60000 = 0.9r/s (~3.5s to turn 180 degrees)
Max turn rate, yaw: 54000/60000 = 0.9r/s (~3.5s to turn 180 degrees)
Max turn rate, roll: 75000/60000 = 1.25r/s (~2.5s to rotate 180 degrees)
Time to reach, pitch: 54000/16800 = 3.214
Time to reach, yaw: 54000/16800 = 3.214
Time to reach, roll: 75000/16800 = 4.464
Quote:edit: for those who are concerned, this is Z-torque and Z-angular speed.Turning left/right is Y, not Z. It's the rotation around the axis. X axis is left/right, Y axis is up/down, Z axis is forward/back. Rotation about the x-axis is pitching up/down, rotation about the y axis is yawing left/right, rotation about the z axis is rolling.
Maneuverability ratings? - Ingenious - 06-02-2012
Eh, axes aren't defined anywhere, and if you're sitting in the plane, then what we know as Z is indeed the direction you turn right and left.
Maneuverability ratings? - kikatsu - 06-02-2012
Well if stats factor into PVP things, can we remove all stats from weapons and things in the game, or at least not show ship armor ratings?
Because, they should not matter right?
Maneuverability ratings? - Hielor - 06-02-2012
' Wrote:Eh, axes aren't defined anywhere, and if you're sitting in the plane, then what we know as Z is indeed the direction you turn right and left.Uh, what? No. The Z axis sticks straight out of the front of your ship. If you're yawing right and left, you are rotating around the Y axis, not the Z axis. It doesn't matter if you're "sitting in the plane" or not, since the movement is ship-relative.
The axes used for ship models are not the same as the axes used in system coordinates.
Maneuverability ratings? - Ingenious - 06-02-2012
' Wrote:Uh, what? No. The Z axis sticks straight out of the front of your ship. If you're yawing right and left, you are rotating around the Y axis, not the Z axis. It doesn't matter if you're "sitting in the plane" or not, since the movement is ship-relative.
The axes used for ship models are not the same as the axes used in system coordinates.
It's not defined anywhere
Maneuverability ratings? - Govedo13 - 06-02-2012
Oh noez- hide all like the response of the ships is hidden right now- so the Dev team could babysit the OP ships as easy as possible ,kikatsu since you are moderator you should not bring such heretic ideas:rolleyes:.
All what Hielor said is true- people that does not care about PvP does not need really to join in the server to RP- they can forumlancer. He is also right about the ship stats- I would try to explain it a bit simpler:
Can you imagine if all ship stats are open and everyone can understand them and freely compare them?
Then you would see that some ships in same class are a waaay better then others, second thing that you would see is the size of the said ships and third would be that they are only there for couple of factions.
In order to prevent the average disco player to understand the importance of response in ship balance they shall remain hidden because if they are open the community pressure would make the devs to fix them- in the same fashion that they let the Scorpion to be hitboxless for 2 years or on the same way that the admins were not able to paint one green cell in google chart to red according to nomad GB turrets for 2 years.
Easy way to check that I am right if you does not believe me when you are not aware much with FL ship mechanics is:
Open FL stats and compare Barghest and Nanda Devi stats- you would see that they are identical, they actually should be the same ships in different form.
Then open Hard CMP compare the models and then test both ships in game and you would go o.O.
Because Barghest have really slow response while the IMG bomber have good response.
That's why the response is hidden- because it makes the ships to dodge better- the ships that dodge better are just harder to kill, and that's why turning for example or bots/hull/gun slots/core are more or less irrelevant- relevant is size and response only together with guns DPE not DPS- actually quite the contrary of the popular belief is important from PvP PoV.
Maneuverability ratings? - Hielor - 06-02-2012
' Wrote:It's not defined anywhereVectors are always written as X Y Z. Assuming they used something other than that is far worse than assuming they used a very standard method of defining axes for ships.
Maneuverability ratings? - Backo - 07-08-2012
Some interesting read: clickie
Maneuverability ratings? - Dubstep - 07-08-2012
' Wrote:Some interesting read: clickieIndeed.