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+--- Thread: Nomads "Mini Shredder" (/showthread.php?tid=82028)
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - ophidian - 06-13-2012
I want a death star.
Jokes aside, I would love to see these kinda artillery ships. Very low hull, getting pwned VEEERY easily, but if it can fire before it gets wtfpwned, it devastates.
Like the artillery of Command and Conquer games. A Mammoth Tank was able to kill that thing in one shot, but the artillery brought havoc upon buildings if it managed to fire once or twice.
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - MÃmir - 06-13-2012
The forward gun's energy usage is just a matter of the devs assigning a value to it. Not a reason why this ship couldn't be a Battlecruiser-type ship.
If you make the ship stronger than a Mako (the ship you propose will also be able to deal roughly the same damage with secondaries/primaries as the Mako), the Mako willl only really be able to combat it effectively at a range using missiles/lm, but even at a range the nomad forward gun with its high velocity and damage will even the playing field (Edit: Although using only the forward gun to both strip the shield off the opposing Mako and deliver damage to it as well would prove a problem).
If the energy used to charge the forward gun was wasted if you don't fire it, it would be different though. The Mako pilot could try figting the Nomad using light mortars, and then turn around and move in for close range combat when the pilot notices the Nomad stops firing, presumably to charge the forward gun. Or just having a really short range on the forward gun, but I don't think that was the general idea.
I'm down with the "ghost with knife" concept, but for it to live up to that, the ship would need to be truly weak to make up for its rather strong offensive capabilities. IMO the ship you propose wouldn't have a need to run when faced with a Mako 1 v 1.
EDIT2: Also the ship you are proposing is a medium battleship - lights like the Mako are equipped with the 7.000.000 powercore
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - Nikita - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:I want a death star.
Jokes aside, I would love to see these kinda artillery ships. Very low hull, getting pwned VEEERY easily, but if it can fire before it gets wtfpwned, it devastates.
Like the artillery of Command and Conquer games. A Mammoth Tank was able to kill that thing in one shot, but the artillery brought havoc upon buildings if it managed to fire once or twice.
Mammoth Tank - this is not similar situation.
i think this is will be like V2 Rocket launcher - long range of shooting,heavy damage,but low hull,big recharge and can be easy killed by other units in normal\close fight.
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - Nikita - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:The forward gun's energy usage is just a matter of the devs assigning a value to it. Not a reason why this ship couldn't be a Battlecruiser-type ship.
If you make the ship stronger than a Mako (the ship you propose will also be able to deal roughly the same damage with secondaries/primaries as the Mako), the Mako willl only really be able to combat it effectively at a range using missiles/lm, but even at a range the nomad forward gun with its high velocity and damage will even the playing field (Edit: Although using only the forward gun to both strip the shield off the opposing Mako and deliver damage to it as well would prove a problem).
If the energy used to charge the forward gun was wasted if you don't fire it, it would be different though. The Mako pilot could try figting the Nomad using light mortars, and then turn around and move in for close range combat when the pilot notices the Nomad stops firing, presumably to charge the forward gun. Or just having a really short range on the forward gun, but I don't think that was the general idea.
I'm down with the "ghost with knife" concept, but for it to live up to that, the ship would need to be truly weak to make up for its rather strong offensive capabilities. IMO the ship you propose wouldn't have a need to run when faced with a Mako 1 v 1.
First of all - this ship will be bigger than mako,he will be slow moving and not have enough guns for normal fight.
I think about his hull,but give him hull 300 000 - this is absurd.
He will have big size,VERY low armor and will get all shots,like it do turtle,but turtle have 1 400 000 armor...
i think this armor will enough to be in BS class with power of BS.
Do him like battlecruiser - this is mean give him 3 600 000 power at max,this is mean he will not have instant kill - this is mean that he is not need in battle,because try to do instant kill lower class ships - this can do BS by 2 heavy mortars.
He must be in class of light BS,with low armor,low agility,low numbers of guns and good forward gun.
And please,look again video,this is size of BS,not the Gb or BC.
MAko with this ship will be like Tresher vs Heavy cruiser,by all parameters - cruiser is better,but tresher easy killing him. Tactics of their (this Shredders type ship) is be in group (2 at min) > uncloak and fire on target to do instant kill and then run or change position for another target.
Anyway,this is must be only BS class,big size, with 8 000 000 energy and at min 600 000 hull or we can forget about this type of unit. Or we will have onother liberty siege cruiser...and this is suks.
This is must be new tactical unit,which will kill from 1 shot....not for normal fight,their tactics - phantoms. Shot and dissapear,nothing more.Their guns only for defence,and if they will shot normal guns,they need start from zero charge main gun.(and this is 15 sec for charging under fire) and dont forget about shields.Some body must shot them down,for this forward gun. Or lonely Shredder will not destroy BS 1 vs 1.
Some body taking down shields and then fire forward on hull.
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - Knjaz - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:on topic: Well, this ship CAN be made. But I doubt we can use something like that in Disco. as far as I know forward cannons suks on all types of ships. With engine/ballance/ships like now this would not work out. If we had Freelancer 2...
You're just not a capwhore, are you? :)
LSC forward gun is great, Valor's Forward Gun is excellent.
And I've been able to even hit gunboats with the latter. Just stick something to the center of your screen, and you get the "aim".
As for the idea - why not, if devs have the time. I never saw a numerous nomad battlefleet online, anyway.
EDIT: But there's a problem, with Disco balance. You see, there's no way to prevent bombers from killing it in the blink of an eye, if it'll have low hull.
Because in Freelancer universe, agility = invulnerability. Just send a pack of bombers if this thing appears on radars, and game over. (unless it'll be something really extreme, like 1500m/s projectile speed, 7-8k range, and millions of damage. But then again, it depends on player count.)
So yeah, probably something less extreme and with higher hull.
and edit2:
Arrange it's Refire Rate through Energy Regen, not through actual refire rate of the gun.
This means, when thinking on ship stats, "build" it around it's FG.
Just an example - Ship with 300.000 regen and 18.000.000 energy.
The Forward Gun takes all 18.000.000 to fire, with Refire Rate of 1 second.
This should be done to prevent Freelancer bug where weapon cooldown restarts if you accidently hit the fire button. Even if the weapon itself didn't fire. While at same time keeping the refire rate exceptionally low. (once in 20 seconds, once in 30 seconds, once in minute - just an example)
(and well, all other guns for this ship class should be balanced accordingly)
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - Nikita - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:You're just not a capwhore, are you? :)
LSC forward gun is great, Valor's Forward Gun is excellent.
And I've been able to even hit gunboats with the latter. Just stick something to the center of your screen, and you get the "aim".
As for the idea - why not, if devs have the time. I never saw a numerous nomad battlefleet online, anyway.
EDIT: But there's a problem, with Disco balance. You see, there's no way to prevent bombers from killing it in the blink of an eye, if it'll have low hull.
Because in Freelancer universe, agility = invulnerability. Just send a pack of bombers if this thing appears on radars, and game over. (unless it'll be something really extreme, like 1500m/s projectile speed, 7-8k range, and millions of damage. But then again, it depends on player count.)
So yeah, probably something less extreme and with higher hull.
5 k > they appearing and shooting with charged forward gun > starting cloak again > 60 sec they will be very good target for bombers > bombers must cruise + charge + shot (this is will take some time)
anyway some BS like Liberty and Bretonia - can easy run from their shots at 5 k range if they will see them.
For turtles and Valors - this is will be fast death. And they must use Bombers, like scouts on long range area.
If bombers will get them - they will easy kill them by torpedo even in cloak.
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - Nikita - 06-13-2012
Quote:Just an example - Ship with 300.000 regen and 18.000.000 energy.
The Forward Gun takes all 18.000.000 to fire, with Refire Rate of 1 second.
This should be done to prevent Freelancer bug where weapon cooldown restarts if you accidently hit the fire button. Even if the weapon itself didn't fire. While at same time keeping the refire rate exceptionally low. (once in 20 seconds, once in 30 seconds, once in minute - just an example)
Base assaults - this is will unbalancing game. If this type of ships will assault base.
Im talking about balanced damage\energy do\using for 1 shot.
this is will kill wing\group of this ships. I think 2-3 this type of ships with cover (who will take down shield) will be perfect)
1 ship with 18 mil damage - will kill group playing.
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - Knjaz - 06-13-2012
Yep, that's another problem.
Such weapon would favour light battleships, and light ships in general alot.
Heavies already have little to no chance vs lights in long range combat, especially when light one got a CDer on his side.
Just recently it got fixed with the involvement of cloaks.
And no, I wasn't talking about 18 million damage, I was talking about Energy Drain for that thing and the resulting Refire Rate.
No doubt it shouldn't have 1.0 DpE
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - massdriver - 06-13-2012
pointless idea as nomads arent huge faction to spend time on it and Im sure they arent capwhores. can hardly see you Nikita flying that ship:)
PS nothing personal.
Nomads "Mini Shredder" - Nikita - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:Yep, that's another problem.Sorry,my wooden head.
Such weapon would favour light battleships, and light ships in general alot.
Heavies already have little to no chance vs lights in long range combat, especially when light one got a CDer on his side.
Just recently it got fixed with the involvement of cloaks.
And no, I wasn't talking about 18 million damage, I was talking about Energy Drain for that thing and the resulting Refire Rate.
No doubt it shouldn't have 1.0 DpE
Yeah. Drain,need to work on it. Or do long time for charge with some animation like in video.Or forward gun will charge only after ship will have full 8 mil of energy.This is mean he cannot start charge gun when he have only 50% of energy...only 8 mil and then start charging (15-20 sec),without any shot.
But i think give him 300 000 hull - this is no give him chance to go in cloak under return fire.