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+--- Thread: Something that has always irked me about official factions... (/showthread.php?tid=95436)
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - SummerMcLovin - 03-12-2013
(03-12-2013, 01:11 PM)sindroms Wrote: Noone wants to have less.
To be fair, IMG are losing the 5kers we hardly use and probably going to lose Battleships from the ID too, which I'll admit doesn't really make sense apart from the Colonial ones they've had in the past.
I do agree that it makes sense for factions such as the BAF (let's say the 13th Fleet won't get its own official faction...) or non-vanilla ones (especially closed ones). The actual Colonial Republic (the majority of the population, living in Coronado) is ran by the CR|, but of course you have all the rogue (read: indy, probably not knowing the lore) Colonials fighting Liberty/Mollys or whatever they do and the Vanguard Fleet (which is there at least inRP) from the old =CR= leadership.
Zoners are definitely not in the same boat, and other examples like the Rogues and Corse (say if the current [UC] and LaBrise| were both around) also don't quite work with the lore of the NPC faction.
As for faction power, I'd already suggested a new Faction Right to set a stolen ship to unusable core with valid RP (in the same way as FR5s 'work'), if that can be done within the current Hook coding.
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - Blodo - 03-12-2013
Let me just poke a small hole in one of the arguments.
(03-12-2013, 10:11 AM)sindroms Wrote: Same with the Zoners and Corsairs- The mistakes of individual groups ended up with the Theta drama.Both the Zoners and the Corsairs at the time were represented by multiple official groups. The core of their drama was in fact the lack of internal agreement, what with the [A] essentially rallying all the indies (and even some officials), and the rest who opposed it being powerless to stop it - and then the Zoners who had the TAZ who wanted peace, the Omicroners who wanted to fight, the indie population who wanted to slash and burn, etc. etc.
The reason why I point this out is to illustrate a point: multiple official factions can (and frequently will) cause just as much or more drama as a single official faction refusing to play along. Disagreements arise, and then comes the problem of "who decides". Some pick democracy, others pick civil war. Kind of like the real world I guess.
Coincidentally I say this while myself being completely in support of the removal of the single official faction rule, but I want also for people to know that it's not in any way a perfect solution and will bring its own slew of problems. Just different ones.
The main problem, and one that is keeping us from getting rid of this rule is this: official factions currently have the option of helping the devs guide their own lore. Lets say then that there are two official factions for one NPC faction who disagree about the way the NPC faction lore should proceed. Which faction do we listen to? Pick one at random? One with most activity? Both? Neither? No matter which option is taken, one or both will find themselves crying bias. Myself and a couple of others have pondered this problem and have yet to find a suitable solution. If anyone thinks they have one, they are free to come forward and share it.
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - Govedo13 - 03-12-2013
I am with Blodo on that one. I also agree that factions should be able to nerf the core of the stolen from them ships. After all factions should be the ones that keep the server alive not indies, as such they do need their in-game perks.
As for the RP perks I guess both officials and non-officials should be able to use the ships and the bases but the officials should have the final word on Development.
Simple way to fix the issue is to triple the official faction required time, so official faction would stay official if it is represented more massively then the indies of the NPC faction in game. If the official faction goes let say 1-2 months under the said tripled limit then unofficial factions should be able to challenge them for the slot.
Let Say I find the in-game behaviour of faction X totally wrong and lolwut but X got 3 active people and 2 more that logs for 1 hour monthly- that grants them the Faction slot for infinity. There is no mechanism where unofficial faction can challenge official faction for the same slot, also at the same time I can play my own thing totally ignoring X faction RP using their ID,guns ships and bases...
X however controls the faction in tyrannical way- why there are is none single faction that allows different squadrons with different RP to use their faction tag? If admins give the indie groups the right to go on sub-faction level- using the official faction tag under some similar agenda with the official group it would be different- however the only way to motivate the indies to cooperate is to give faction players more perks.
Now we got the stupid situation where the official factions have little rights and little in-game based requirements. Give factions more stuff like flagships and cau9s but demand more from them in return. If the sever population shifts towards factions instead of indies only good things can happen in long term.
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - Lythrilux - 03-12-2013
Wait a second, nerfing the core of a stolen ship?
How the heck does that make any RP sense? Do they magically shoot a lighting bolt from their hands from some far off place in Sirius and it hits and nerfs the core of a ship located in say, Liberty?
I don't really think nerfing the core of the stolen ships is the way to go, considering how the current format doesn't make much RP sense anyway.
There are some IDs that are dependent on stolen technology, e.g Pirate ID.
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - Anaximander - 03-12-2013
Ok then, when your stolen ship gets destroyed, it gets deleted off the account - that would make a lot of RP sense.
Blodo is right though, its substituting one set of problems with another. I'm of the opinion that the new set of problems are more positive than the old set of problems. Regarding faction influence on lore, perhaps it was an idea to have players with a lot of experience regarding said faction, or the official factions themselves, draft up lore summaries for the next dev cycle that could then be debated by players and factions here on the forum before ratifying the changes? That way more factions/players/groups can influence the outcome, rather than a handful of players do it all and then leave with no-one to pick up the torch and carry on in the same direction.
EDIT: Deleted an off-topic rant, I wont mess up your thread any more, Spazzy
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - SummerMcLovin - 03-12-2013
You don't think they'd build in some sort of failsafe trigger to render it useless when the tech('s user) goes rogue?
Pirate ID can always gain permission to use it and not shoot people in their own 'stolen' tech. Then there's the fact that they re-steal the ship every time they have it blown up, "how the heck does that make any RP sense"? Then of course you have the civilian/black market ships.
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - Lythrilux - 03-12-2013
(03-12-2013, 07:25 PM)SummerMcLovin Wrote: You don't think they'd build in some sort of failsafe trigger to render it useless when the tech('s user) goes rogue?
Pirate ID can always gain permission to use it and not shoot people in their own 'stolen' tech. Then there's the fact that they re-steal the ship every time they have it blown up, "how the heck does that make any RP sense"? Then of course you have the civilian/black market ships.
It's things like that which make me think how awesome it would be if we had player shipyards that'd sell black market technology.
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - sindroms - 03-12-2013
Guys, a small reminder, in the OP I mentioned that there IS no fix to this with the current server rules and general community mindset. There is no need to remind us of that, rather suggest something that would work instead, because this has been brought up many times ever since the One Faction Per ID implementation.
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - Crackpunch - 03-13-2013
(03-12-2013, 06:53 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Wait a second, nerfing the core of a stolen ship?
How the heck does that make any RP sense? Do they magically shoot a lighting bolt from their hands from some far off place in Sirius and it hits and nerfs the core of a ship located in say, Liberty?
Do you instantly gain the knowledge and parts to maintain said stolen ship?
RE: Something that has always irked me about official factions... - Madvillain - 03-13-2013
(03-12-2013, 11:01 AM)Vrabcek Wrote:(03-12-2013, 10:11 AM)sindroms Wrote: Factions in general have many bonuses and rights
I don't know when you were last part of an official faction that was trying to use their faction rights, but I'm having the impression official factions turned into "clans" we know from other multiplayer games. So just having shiny tags, but thats about it.
sums it up