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+---- Thread: Supernovas! (/showthread.php?tid=8333)
Supernovas! - Blodo - 07-27-2008
' Wrote:Sure, compare it then to other 280 +/- 5 variants then.Hull Damage - 123 000
Shield Damage - 61 500
Still makes for a fighter instakill machine. That's the entire point behind speed staying the same: to keep it really hard to SN fighters, because that's not what this weapon is for. It will however be used like the mini razor is currently (anti fighter sniping) if you make it 350 speed.
So the way I see it the stats should be extended the other way around. Give the strangelet more damage, keep speed the same. My proposal for stats adjusted to the first page post:
Hull Damage - 165 000
Shield Damage - 80 500
Range - 2300m
Energy Usage - 25 000
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Supernovas! - Cawdor - 07-27-2008
I think there should only be a difference in the damage amount while taking the energy usage into account. So, weapons with lower damage should use less energy - giving you a higher frequency but not real advantage compared to those who do mare damage but need more energy. So each of those weapons should, for example, do 3,5 damage points on the hull per shot.
Supernovas! - Treewyrm - 07-27-2008
' Wrote:I think there should only be a difference in the damage amount while taking the energy usage into account. So, weapons with lower damage should use less energy - giving you a higher frequency but not real advantage compared to those who do mare damage but need more energy. So each of those weapons should, for example, do 3,5 damage points on the hull per shot.Problem with it, like I mentioned above, is that energy consumption has lesser impact on balance than damage. For example if refire rate stays the same and energy regeneration is enough recycle for both low/high energy consumption SNs by the time when refire delay ticks off you get nothing by having both weapons able to fire again simultaneously and yet having different damage, it would become irrelevant. So bomber powerplants and regen rate comes into play.
Supernovas! - chopper - 07-27-2008
Also, one more thing I'v forgot to write down.
With Stranglet as proposed, Wilde would be able to shoot 2 of these at the time.
They are flying the Snubnose, therefore 58k energy supply.
Proposed consumption was 25k, which is impossible.
It shouldn't go bellow 30k in any case.
McNeo, sure, you can tweak with range, but don't go too low with some of them.
I think that it should be separated in two classes only, to go with the power supply.
That way, bigger bombers (58k supply) would be able to fire to some 2k distance.
Smaller ones (48k supply) would be able to fire to some 1.5k distance.
That way it would stay balanced, since smaller ones can go closer to capships without taking damage.
If you make a Rogue SN with 1300 range, then Barghest would loose 1/2 bots in his first attempt to hit with SN, because it's too big for 1300 range.
If you catch my drift.
These Supernovas should go well with the ships that fire them.
That means, better ship = lousier SN.
Supernovas! - Jinx - 07-27-2008
while i expressed my concerns some - ahh, dozens pages before - about these weapons ( cause everyone will try to get the biggest bite of it to own others ) - the idea of factionized SNs appeared so that enemies don t need to travel through half of sirius to get an order weapon.
why don t we simply copy paste the SN we got now, give them some cosmetic changes and place them within the factions core territory? - honestly, whats all the crap with the different stats. - factions that do not have a strong lobby will get crap, while factions with a strong lobby will fight for theirs to be superior arguing with being attacked all the time, overwhelmed etc etc ( i mean - who cares )
make an identical version of the SN for each faction, same stats to the last number. - give them a neat and unique effect and a nice name.
if you meddle with the stats, you get problems. - make them fast, you own fighters... or if you think they should do 200k damage ( yay - a SN doing more damage than a heavy mortar that uses 3.000.000 energy - no comment ) - i know those were only examples.
but really WHY do we need them to have different stats? - it will cause factions to fight to get the best one of them. - and the result is that we ll be in balance troubles - balance troubles that will loom over any RP.
and - please, don t make it so that any SN can be dual fired. - even if you insist that you ll keep it under control - it won t take long untill someone says " i m special, i can put 2 on my bomber, - cause i have the RP for it - and then he can dual fire them " - so make it so that its never possible to fire two at once, no matter what.
edit: be aware that you are meddling with the most overpowring and unbalancing gun in the game. - a gun that only has this power, cause back in the days - it was argumented that you cannot deploy enough bombers to keep the battleship spam under control - mind, there s not too many battleships - and surprisingly enough... a single bomber can almost take down a cruiser ( well, i managed to take down their shields easily and score some hull hits - and thats all alone against one cruiser - so, please, take the current stats as the absolute MAXIMUM )
Supernovas! - McNeo - 07-27-2008
I dunno about that, im trying more for a trend fitting the guns of the faction. Like for example, in the propsal, the Corsair one was some heavy hitting hammer. Despite me liking that for obvious reasons, I reversed it with the Outcasts as they are the ones with the big damage guns while the Corsairs stick with energy efficiency. I put the Zoners in the middle.
I've gone through the first stage of rebalancing now, and im looking at the infocards correcting some errors and changing bits so they coincide with the stats that im changing. Most changes are quite small though, but I will propose the rogues have the highest damage gun, taking into account both the Sammael and the Barghest.
Supernovas! - Treewyrm - 07-27-2008
My guess it's best that we'll test and see things in betas, if aforementioned SNs in one stats or another ever gets there that is. We already have various guns with various stats, some better, some worse, some are different in different situations and often it's who uses them and whom against too. After all that's how it been and likely will remain as, whether you prefer slower weapons to faster, higher damage to higher refire, and so on. There is already variety existing.
Supernovas! - chopper - 07-27-2008
Here's my try, feel free to correct me or suggest anything.
Nomad Strangelet Cannon
Hull Damage - 135 000
Shield Damage - 117 500
Range - 1800m
Energy Usage - 31 000
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Rheinland Plasma Cannon
Sternenfaust
Hull Damage - 155 000
Shield Damage - 77 500
Range - 1900 m
Energy Usage - 42 000
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Kusari Photon Mortar
Kagutsuchi
Hull Damage - 140 000
Shield Damage - 70 500
Range - 1500 m
Energy Usage - 36 000
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Liberty Ion Cannon
Arbiter
Hull Damage - 144 000
Shield Damage - 71 000
Range - 1700
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Energy Usage - 37 000
Bretonia Tachyon Cannon
Obliterator
Hull Damage - 160 000
Shield Damage - 80 000
Range - 2000
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Energy Usage - 42 500
Corsair Neutron Blaster
Demeter
Hull Damage - 142 000
Shield Damage - 71 000
Range - 1750m
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Refire Rate - 0.18
Energy Usage - 38 000
Outcast Particle Blaster
Basilisk
Hull Damage - 134 000
Shield Damage - 67 000
Range - 1700m
Projectile Speed - 280m/s
Energy Usage - 34 500
Zoner Antimatter Cannon
Auraka
Hull Damage - 135 000
Shield Damage - 67 500
Range - 2100m
Projectile Speed - 280m/s
Energy Usage - 37 000
Order Dark Matter Cannon
Serket
Hull Damage - 150 000
Shield Damage - 75 000
Range - 2300m
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Energy Usage - 41 500
(I think it is balanced towards Taiidan bomber, since I have no idea if the new Order bomber is going to be 48k or 58k, I won't touch it, just increase it's energy a bit so it gets a bit worse then Rheinland one)
Bounty Hunter Guild Laser Mortar
Remington
Hull Damage - 125 000
Shield Damage - 62 500
Range - 1650m
Projectile Speed - 280m/s
Energy Usage - 31 500
Blood Dragon Photon Mortar
Raiden
Hull Damage - 124 000
Shield Damage - 62 000
Range - 1680 m
Energy Usage - 32 500
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Red Hessian Tachyon Cannon
Vidar
Hull Damage - 140 000
Shield Damage - 70 000
Range - 1900 m (hopefully Thor is going to become 58k bomber, so range is balanced towards 58k, not 48k.)
Energy Usage - 38 500
Projectile Speed - 280 m/s
Liberty Rogue Particle Blaster
Lilith
Hull Damage - 165 000
Shield Damage - 82 500
Range - 1900m
Projectile Speed - 280m/s
Refire Rate - 0.18
Energy Usage - 48 000
Original Supernova Stats for comparison.
Hull Damage: 132 000
Shield Damage: 66 000
Range: 1960m
Projectile Speed: 280m/s
Refire Rate: 0.17
Energy Usage: 38 000
I still think Clayph could do this much better then me, since he gave a lot of effort in this one.
He just needs to limit certain things, and he should have max/min stats in front of him, like McNeo proposed for example.
This is just my quick shot at things, it most certainly has many flaws, so feel free to discuss any of them.
:)
And just to add that i wholeheartedly agree with Jinx.
Supernovas! - Treewyrm - 07-27-2008
Okay. Chopper, make Nomad variant the same as Order's one. Or even more energy consumption for more damage. If you're up to it. Since they all get same speed now.
Supernovas! - chopper - 07-27-2008
It's impossible, Treewyrm. Nomad bomber has 48k powercore, and Taiidan has 58k.
I would even take Nomad one any time over the Order one, but I guess that's just subjective.
It does 15k more damage for 10k more energy. Very ineffective, if you ask me.
Anyway, if the Order bomber is to be 48k, then it's Supernova won't look like this.
Just to add that I intentionally made all House Supernovas better then other ones.
I think Bretonian one is the best, not sure though.