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+--- Thread: Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing (/showthread.php?tid=70170)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Curios - 12-19-2011
bah, this still going?
Lets wait for .86 for taking a look on what'll happen.
Well, i don't have any SRP ship, but have few white celled once, but for real - i don'r realy care if their performance will get boiled.
But maybe while we are on it can we have a rank 10 faction guns? Since if rank 9 white celled guns will perform as rank 8 or even 7 so what the point? It's always easier again to just use codes.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Ayatolah - 12-19-2011
' Wrote:bah, this still going?
Lets wait for .86 for taking a look on what'll happen.
Well, i don't have any SRP ship, but have few white celled once, but for real - i don'r realy care if their performance will get boiled.
But maybe while we are on it can we have a rank 10 faction guns? Since if rank 9 white celled guns will perform as rank 8 or even 7 so what the point? It's always easier again to just use codes.
the point is that some of us don't know how will it nerf... from some i've heard about DPS, from others, energy regeneratio, from some others increased energy requirements for white ones...etc etc etc
of course... is a matter to adapt to the new circusmtances
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Curios - 12-19-2011
' Wrote:the point is that some of us don't know how will it nerf... from some i've heard about DPS, from others, energy regeneratio, from some others increased energy requirements for white ones...etc etc etc
of course... is a matter to adapt to the new circusmtances
That's why lets just wait and take a look. Same advice was given when we talked about dockable BSes\Turret Splittings\Whatever, so why not to apply same here?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - jammi - 12-19-2011
By the way, bear in mind that removing the tech chart means you can use the tech without being sanctioned. It doesn't mean you can use the tech without the parent faction FR5ing you / bountying you for theft. It'll still be worth asking, instead of everything just going free-for-all. It just means the only repercussions will be RP ones, instead of an arbitrary line in the sand, after which an admin slaps you.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Veygaar - 12-19-2011
^ ?
I heard everything will be treated as white celled, meaning you still have to request it, but now we have more options to request...?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - jammi - 12-19-2011
' Wrote:^ ?That was me guessing. :P
I heard everything will be treated as white celled, meaning you still have to request it, but now we have more options to request...?
My point was, even if you're no longer sanctioned for stuff, factions will still exert their own influence ingame.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - mjolnir - 12-19-2011
Main issue:
Most people will agree that mixing tech from enemy/unfriendly/unrelated etc factions shouldn't be done on regular base be the majority of players. The fact is that in the majority of cases this is done for PvP and not RP reasons and it will stay like that as long as there is some PvP advantage to gain. (= as long as there's some variety)
Historically:
1. ( before 4.83 and early 4.83)
Everyone could use anything, so you would see Blood Dragon faction with Raven Talons/Tizonas/Nomad Blasters fighting a Corsair faction with exactly same setups
=> was rather boring (all factions very similar) and didn't look very RP
2. Late 4.83
Trough arguments on forum and with admins the small community somehow agreed what was ok and what wasn't ok to use. Generally people weren't allowed to use enemy guns unless with some RP story.
=>somehow worked mostly due to the low number of people.
3. 4.84, early 4.85
Large playerbase increasing admin workload + many more ships/weapons that could lead to some rather overpowered combinations. Some extra lines added to rules but still admins deciding what is ok for people and not.
=> Didn't work all that well due to too much admin workload and arguing on forums
4. later 4.85
Tech chart + SRP requests added.
=>Tech chart kind of failed because factions will just exchange equipment with each other while non-faction players had tough times unless they knew the right people. SRPs worksome for admins and got closed down.
All the while there have been some gentleman rules and promises by factions or people that always got broken and sometimes people would even deny they existed.
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So automatic nerfs/upgrades are needed because:
a) admins can't (and don't want to) control and check what all the players use
b) too many people to use gentlemans agreement + people can't be trusted
c) rules should be simple
What automatic nerf or upgrade based on id/ship/equipment combinations should achieve:
1. It discourages people to do use "wrong" combinations for other reasons than RP.
Good question is what is a wrong combination..... Titan with Krakens looks wrong to most. Werewolf with Krakens does not. => need some different categories that will be adjusted differently
2. It allows ships/equipment for each faction to be made even more different without introducing new overpowered combinations
The mentioned Werewolf is some huge ship, so it could use better/different guns to offset this a bit. But if they are made that good then other factions will suddenly start using them on different ships that will be overpowered.
At the same time for example civilian guns/ships could get some boost when used with civilian/merc/corporate id.
3. Significant workload reduction for admins
4. Fewer and simpler rules, less reporting.
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What needs to be addressed is the people with SRP or factions that use "strange" equipment/ship combinations. If these should have same PvP effectiveness as before this can be done by modifying the automatic script for special IDs/faction IDs or even single characters.
It is for admins and community to decide whether that part should be done or not.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Ayatolah - 12-19-2011
' Wrote:That was me guessing. :P
My point was, even if you're no longer sanctioned for stuff, factions will still exert their own influence ingame.
Pretty logical... believe me.. if certain factions lose the right to control about their ships... this thread will be only an appendix for the incoming ones :laugh:, anyway, losing the need of permissions will kill partially the RP thingys of the server... so it would be bad idea...
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Maelstrom - 12-20-2011
It won't kill the roleplay. When a person goes into a store to purchase a smith and wesson he doesn't ask the smith and wesson representative if Native American's who haul freight in the big rigs can do so or if his faction is not allowed. Smith and Wesson doesn't care and what you do with the gun is between you, the law, and God.
The thought behind the tech-chart isn't all that bad, some restriction is needed so that we don't see the LNS-Togo, but to much is just plain rediculous. If we still allow them to FR5 over tech we are going to end up with Freelancer's and Merc's with faction IFF's, ships, and tech that are not able to land on thier allied factions's bases because they aren't liked well enough, aren't known well enough, or the faction leadership is just being a *bleep* about it all. That's just stupid.
Now, if that person then role plays being an ally but his/her actions are counter to the majority of the factions, for example a trade faction IFF, ship, and tech with a freelance ID and pirating, then I can see a FR5. Of course, I can see a freelance/merc/pirate BMM being a privateer, too, and pirating Kusari and Gallia shipping and mining but not touching Bretonia or Liberty shipping and mining. That would be within the rules and nobody could irp blame BMM for the freelancer/merc/pirates actions because the freelancer/merc/pirate is not actually part of BMM. I can also see BMM saying no to the person who wants to play this character and that would be a greater hit to role play than getting rid of the silly "Can I haz?" notes that we have now.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Camtheman - 12-20-2011
Quote:What automatic nerf or upgrade based on id/ship/equipment combinations should achieve:
1. It discourages people to do use "wrong" combinations for other reasons than RP.
Good question is what is a wrong combination..... Titan with Krakens looks wrong to most. Werewolf with Krakens does not. => need some different categories that will be adjusted differently
2. It allows ships/equipment for each faction to be made even more different without introducing new overpowered combinations
The mentioned Werewolf is some huge ship, so it could use better/different guns to offset this a bit. But if they are made that good then other factions will suddenly start using them on different ships that will be overpowered.
At the same time for example civilian guns/ships could get some boost when used with civilian/merc/corporate id.
3. Significant workload reduction for admins
4. Fewer and simpler rules, less reporting.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What needs to be addressed is the people with SRP or factions that use "strange" equipment/ship combinations. If these should have same PvP effectiveness as before this can be done by modifying the automatic script for special IDs/faction IDs or even single characters.
It is for admins and community to decide whether that part should be done or not.
Yes, hell to the yes.
It'll give -certain- people reason to RP because they'll want to acquire that certain restricted ship or weapons...
People that RP all the time for everything like they should... it wont affect them much.