(02-23-2014, 06:19 PM)Necroth Wrote: This situation has escalated dramatically. Here is my take on things. I do not post often on the forums this is true, but I do read a lot of threads and have been around for some time so I'm not new to discoland.

I do agree that there are way way to many Zoner caps around. I think most of us agree about that and it is a problem. I myself do have two Neph's (that I never really fly) so to me I do not directly care if I no longer have these ships. The first one I purchased was some time ago, and to me it was a goal I had finally fulfilled. When I first started playing back in 4.84 times, I remember seeing players flying around in their flashy battleships. I thought to myself "Wow there is something I can really work towards" and thus it became my goal to work my way to buying one. I think this is still a goal for many of our newer members. That grinding away, working towards getting that "special" thing that seems so important. Well after getting my first Neph, I realized that I actually had more fun working towards getting then having it.

This is not a shared experience as I myself have faced the atypical lolwut in a Neph before. Still it came from a guy who never really wanted to RP in a space flight simulator to someone who really appreciates what the RP in disco can be. This was my evolution in disco and I'm sure there are others out there in discoland like myself.

After the years of playing I have seen changes, some were good and others not as much but I can understand. People dislike it when they have worked hard at something and it simply goes "poof" one day. This most certainly is the case with Zoner Caps. I'm not against giving Zoners some armored transport vessels, as that makes a lot of sense. Living on the edge and faced with the unknown, people are very likely to arm themselves as there is that fear of the unknown. And even worse, there is a hostile alien life form looking to eradicate humanity. This would drive people to arm themselves to the teeth. Better to have a big gun and not have to use it, rather than needing a big gun and not having it right? (Hence one reason the Neph is a valid tool)

We cannot look to the discoland lore to make sense in every situation as there are many takes on it. This is especially true involving Zoners as there are so many different types out there. I think Zoners as both indies and officials are a tempting character for a lot of players. You do not have the same RP in mind when playing a Zoner as you would lets say to [RM] or to Liberty. Those factions have fixed goals and enemies. You know when you make a [RM] vessel you are going to fight against Liberty, Hessians, etc. Zoners as groups or indies, make their own enemies and the RP potential involving this is one reason I enjoy playing a Zoner myself.

Now, we Zoners face losing our cap ships. Some people got them for good discoland RP, using them for the mobile Rp platforms, etc. Others well...got them for the reason they are a problem in the community.

My suggestions to help and mitigate the situation is as follows (It is not possible to make everyone happy in this situation so I'm not attempting to please everyone):

1. Admins/devs start a new public poll about the Zoner situation. Lock the other threads to keep this from escalating. Do not allow posts in the new poll thread and ensure that the primary post of the thread is very clear in the intention to change the Zoner ship line around. Keep the poll open for a two week period of time to give players some time to think about it and cast their vote. (I know there already was a poll, but I do not think that the players really understood what the consequences for not voting would do) This will give a clear public poll that all of the players and factions can see, and this transparency in the process will help to show why the changes are being made if any.

2. If/when the change to the ship line is going to occur, make a post on the forums warning the players that it is going to go into effect and when. Post this a full two weeks before the change so players have the chance to decide on how to proceed. Once the post has been made, remove the players ability to buy Neph's outright by increasing the price (albeit only temporarily) to a level in which the sell price of the players Neph would now equal the 530,000,000 credit price tag on the vessel. This way, anyone who does not want the new battle transport can get their credits back. (Note: If people work hard on earning something, and you just swoop in and basically reduce what they had to a 1/4 value they are going to get very upset about it)

3. SRP is still an option for the caps, but do not grandfather the current ships. After the two week period of exchange is over (i.e. number 2) Allow people who own Zoner caps to post in the poll thread that was previously locked. Simply make a template for them to use. For players who choose this route, move their vessels to Bastille after their post. Then allow them to do the SRP for their caps back accordingly. This will help to control the amount of Zoner caps in the game, I believe this will work out better for the official Zoner factions at that, as they might in fact have good RP behind having such a ship. (I myself would gladly give up both of my Neph's right now, to remove all of the lolwut Zoner caps out there.) This way the Admins will not be overrun by SRP's for Zoner caps and they can look at the RP basis on a case by case basis.

There is no way to get everyone here to agree. Some say its zonerzonerzoner some say its the annual zonernerf. I just don't want our community to suffer over a ship line, as this will ruin some peoples previous RP and my idea's are an attempt to keep their RP around because who are we to say that their RP work is now worthless? I want to give them the option of keeping it up (as good players are hard to find) and bettering discoland overall.

Now if you disagree with any ideas I have listed, please put out some new ideas and don't just rage over this. A true merit of adulthood is compromise, lets show the admins/devs that we are willing to work together to make discoland better for all of us.

Thank you for the time you took in reading this.

(02-23-2014, 07:23 PM)Jinx Wrote: this thread really is more a FYI, and especially those who have ranted or insulted before have disqualified themselves from any reasonable discussion that can be considered.

what and if some capital warships remain is up to the admins at that point. eventually the leviathan can become a typical SRP zoner ship for those zoners who just have to play a big battleship open for anyone who wishes to SRP it.

but the change is going to happen. this is not a decision made just recently - that is the outcome of a decision that has started long ago. it simply takes time to get to a consensus of how the change should happen - and the consensus was made.

we are aware that facing the actual changes opposed to eventual changes or threats of change some time ago, trigger a lot of resistance.

also this is not only about what the zoner players want. it is what any new player thinks of a faction when they come in contact with another faction. when a new player meets a zoner player in any ship - the first thing they should think is what the faction is about ( in disco terms // also yes - i even contacted the original faction dev of freelancer via 7crows to get his idea of what the original idea of zoners was )
do they see warships that are similar to any other faction? do they see transports, do they see hybrids, do they see no capital ships at all? all that determines what they think "the zoners" are. and all that makes up their mind in future interactions with the factions.

we want players to get the proper idea of the zoners - which was by the way promoted by the factions, too - of explorers, mostly peaceful dwellers who still defend themselves but who do not attack others. a faction that relies on their "friends" for serious defense - who solves conflicts diplomatically partly cause they want it, but also cause they MUST.

when it is about reimbursement - that is an admin matter, but i do believe that - for the first time in disco history - there might be a plan to compensate players due to the large scale

and it is a large scale

80 fearless
116 nephilim
124 aquillon
3 leviathan ( i think its 3 now )

so yea - zoners will focus more on their concept of exploration ( with transport classified RP ships ) - but they keep 2 cruisers and a gunboat - which is pretty much more than your average trading faction.
if the leviathan becomes a regular SRP capital class dreadnought, they even keep the freaking full military shipline ( any fighter, GB, CR, DE, [DN] )

unless the ppl who think their RP deserves a capital warship are afraid they won t get it.... .

(02-23-2014, 07:23 PM)Jinx Wrote: this is not a decision made just recently - that is the outcome of a decision that has started long ago.

(02-23-2014, 07:29 PM)Haste Wrote: InRP, these Zoner caps never had a good background to exist in the first place. The shipline is simply being adapted to match the lore.