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+--- Thread: ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS (/showthread.php?tid=21611)
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Benjamin - 06-11-2009
A sad day for Right 5, in my opinion.
People always read these things and extrapolate the notions into these massive moral questions and you read it and you're like 'Man, it's freelancer. Sure in theory I don't want to discriminate against anyone or whatever, but when I'm playing my spaceship game I don't want to have my little spaceship chased by 5 giant spaceships who don't talk english.'
Turning this stuff in to big objective questions about right and wrong and people's rights just doesn't fit for a little computer game designed for fun.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - reavengitair - 06-11-2009
Quote:My reasoning is very simple.
An independent player is harder to control, because they rarely have or recognize any authority.
A factionized fellow has both older people as well as the faction leader above him - to correct his mistakes etc
Therefore - indies are more prone to misconduct.
Indies may be more prone to misconduct, however you'll find in some factions where indies are around alot more than official faction members, you'll find some of the indies can RP quite well.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - bluntpencil2001 - 06-11-2009
' Wrote:A sad day for Right 5, in my opinion.Well said.
People always read these things and extrapolate the notions into these massive moral questions and you read it and you're like 'Man, it's freelancer. Sure in theory I don't want to discriminate against anyone or whatever, but when I'm playing my spaceship game I don't want to have my little spaceship chased by 5 giant spaceships who don't talk english.'
Turning this stuff in to big objective questions about right and wrong and people's rights just doesn't fit for a little computer game designed for fun.
When I see big philosophical debates about a spaceship game, complete with Holocaust comparisons, I die a little inside.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Zeltak - 06-11-2009
' Wrote:Well said.
When I see big philosophical debates about a spaceship game, complete with Holocaust comparisons, I die a little inside.
Are you just taking everything I said in our skype call? I have copyright on that you know. D:
So much hassle for a game, pretty hilarious, but on a more serious note, I see no reason why we should not just test this proposal and then analyze from there, instead of these "prophecies" of what might happen.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Cellulanus - 06-11-2009
Ah, I love the irony of this whole situation.
Since as many people are so fond to point out, many faction leaders are also admins.
So you trust these people, who were hand picked by Igiss and voted yes or no by the community, to fairly distribute sanctions, but you are afraid to let them fairly distribute Battleship Licenses?
If anything it should be the non admin ones you should worry about more then the admin ones, or do people just fear power when it's not theirs?
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Agmen of Eladesor - 06-11-2009
Other than one minor comment, I've pretty well kept my mouth shut here, if simply because my faction leader ... you know, one of those evil, twisted baby-eaters that obviously can't be trusted with a sharp knife, let alone a sharp wit ... asked us to not post if possible.
Well, based upon what Dieter has just said, I'm going to open up now and give my two cents worth.
Right 5? Darned right I support Right 5.
However, if you guys want to NOT let us have any control over who has our battleships - then I better NOT hear ANY complaining, whining, moaning, or other words of aggravation when:
The capwhore bounty hunter indies come in and rape Crete.
The capwhore Corsairs indies come in and rape Malta.
The capwhore Liberty navy indies come in and rape Hamburg.
The capwhore Order indies come in and ...
You get where I'm going with this? Can and DO things like this happen now? Sound VAGUELY familiar to any of you? I certain that there have NEVER been any complaints about an unofficial faction coming in and making 2 or 3 raids per day with battleships against their 'enemies' and there have NEVER been ANY complaints whatsoever about how new players here come out with big ships and have no clue - don't speak english and don't care to learn, or to really follow our rules. But we can't restrict what they can buy - nope, that would be a BAD thing, because it would restrict their role-play.
Yeah, right...
What role play?
I'm serious. Those of you who are complaining the loudest about the 'right's of indies on here. You're in the minority of indie players. You actually role play, and you're also active in the forums. You actually give a damn about this spaceship game.
Guess what? So do those of us in the factions.
There are specific reasons WHY Athenian, Tic, Zig, Stoat, Zapp, Dean, (Edit - sorry, forgot Jinx) and I, are the BHG Guildmasters - and why we merged the S/D and the Core into the BHG| / BHG|Core. A primary objective was to prevent another debacle such as we had with the DW, and the wonderful and lovely name that they gave bounty hunters. Another primary objective was to make bounty hunting a reputable occupation on the server for a faction, AND to provide a certain amount of control so that the lolcaps would be answerable to someone. We're not preventing anyone who has the proper ID and IFF from buying our ships - and unlike many factions, it really takes a minimal amount of server posting to become a member of the BHG| / BHG|Core. BUT - if you make that your tag, then we damned well expect you to follow our and the server rules - and to listen to those of us who have been in the faction since before it's inception.
Quite frankly, the complaining about 'restrictions' on battleships sounds incredibly childish - and churlish, too. If you're that afraid of misconduct by the faction leaders - look at how many of them are already either Admins or forum moderators. Do we disagree with these people at times? Sure. But on the whole, do they do a good job of running the day to day operations here? Damned straight they do - and with very little thanks.
I agree with Dieter - I find a lot of the comments made by a few posters to be personal attacks on their integrity and their abilities. If you feel your feet being pinched, that's probably because that shoe fits awfully tight.
I disagree with Dieter in that I don't think Right 5 should be a dead issue. Certainly it's been divisive. But you know what? You guys have also been complaining, moaning, and whining about why bother going official? After all, what could POSSIBLY be a reason why you would want to do so? Well, here's a darned good reason. Rights 1 and 4 already exist anyway. Right 2 - it should exist, and if everyone is RP'ing properly, then effectively it already does. Right 3 - that's just a bone thrown back to the people that put the time and effort into making it work.
So that leaves Right 5. The minor detail that people aren't willing to give it a 90 day trial. 3 months. Is that such an incredibly long time? Nope. Is that a SERIOUS reward for being an official faction, giving the official faction some rights and powers, for having come up with both a good faction application, AND for maintaining active membership? Yes - and THAT makes it worth something to have an official faction on here.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Lux - 06-11-2009
Much as I hate to repeat myself (again), I haven't gotten a single answer whose author interpreted what I asked closely enough to be satisfying. Therefore, if I may:
' Wrote:If a faction does not follow cannon RP, are they allowed to order independent characters to do something relating to non-cannon RP?
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Athenian - 06-11-2009
I never realised that somehow being a leader of a faction was an inherently bad thing that made you suspect or somehow automatically guilty of oppressing people or put me in the same category as the Nazis. That's a laughable assertion, considering the lengths I've gone to to destroy the evidence of all the nasty things I've done - the genocide, the labour camps, the tattooing of numbers on arms, the experiments, the enforced sterilisation.
Why are people persistently pushing the idea of a division on the server between factions and everyone else? This is a hobby. If you are determined to push the idea of factions being so untrustworthy, then have done and say why. Come right out and say who makes you suspicious. It's always best to have things out in the open. Of course, if it isn't an actual real experience that you could reasonably sort it out with another human being like adults do, then the question of why you don't trust others comes to mind.
If you are engaged in hypothetical debates about the potential problems that the proposal will bring, then even discussing it is pointless. How can anyone convince you of something that exists only in the future? Of course I always believed that the purpose of debate was to persuade others. To convince them but also to shape your own thinking and allow yourself to be persuaded to change your mind. While it is fun to debate things, and instructive, it's a little depressing to see only black-hat thinking used about what seems to a relatively transparent and negligible change to how a game functions.
It will mean ...not much of a difference for me. Maybe less work. Aye, work. Like I said before, two morons in fighters can make the server unpleasant for others, so I don't really think that the proposal would actually make much difference. It might get people to the forums, but with the manner in which some people choose to discuss things here, I wonder if that's an entirely good thing.
And don't take it personally, Dieter. I kind of did too. But it wore off once I got to thinking of other ways to make life more and more miserable for everyone I encounter on the server.
Having said all that, I don't know how my posting in this will be perceived. Because some of you are bound to think that I'm campaigning for more "power" for myself and my fellows. Ah, too late.
Does a referee have power? That's what I thought this was about. Having referees.
@Agmen: You omitted Jinx. Unforgiveable, dude. Twenty laps of 56.
Edit: @Overload: No. There was a notice about that around here somewhere...I'll see if I can get it for you.
Edit: @Agmen: And Megiddo! Dude!! Down and gimme twenty. (our non-skye co-leaders)
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - worldstrider - 06-11-2009
' Wrote:Much as I hate to repeat myself (again), I haven't gotten a single answer whose author interpreted what I asked closely enough to be satisfying. Therefore, if I may:
Yeah a lot of things aren't addressed because its "just such a darn good idea" why should we waste time answering questions about it? Or thinking.
Exactly when was the last time you were gang banged by five non-english battleships? This is some huge problem? Its not. And a "good faction hand" will not fix that.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Agmen of Eladesor - 06-11-2009
' Wrote:Much as I hate to repeat myself (again), I haven't gotten a single answer whose author interpreted what I asked closely enough to be satisfying. Therefore, if I may:
No.
Sorry - thought that had been answered a long time ago in another thread. But you may have either missed it or not been active at the time.
Some of the 'official canon RP' is hardwired into the game. There was a big thread about this regarding the Order and Liberty. Net result - while the faction can, and often does, have some RP that may not be quite following canon, they can't force indies to follow it.
Also, there are times when, to advance RP in game, you may see some 'cooperation' between bitter enemies. Many times out in Delta I'll end up 'helping' the Order instead of blasting them - because the enemy of my enemy is .. my enemy, but I'd rather see the blue jelly dead first.