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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - RedEclipse - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 10:43 PM)E.T. Wrote: And red, well last comment of him i remember was that they didn't need caps but had order to defend them.Oh yeah, it calls... Imagination? I didn't changed my stance on Zoner caps since 07 and on first attempts to remove them in 09.
Keep good work on misinform people.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Highland Laddie - 02-24-2014
Quote:Make it inRP illegal for Zoner-caps to enter house-space at all
In some Houses it already IS illegal inRP for Zoner caps to be there. In the past, we've often been busy in BAF tracking down rogue Aquillon "jumpers" who aren't registered.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - SMI-Great.Fox - 02-24-2014
(02-23-2014, 07:23 PM)Jinx Wrote: 80 fearless ---> which will become nothing but still a freaking military grade cruisers
116 nephilim ---> which will become 116 deep space vessels
124 aquillon ---> which will become 124 large armored transports
3 leviathan ( i think its 3 now ) ---> which will become actual 3 dreadnoughts -2 Actually. Phoenix and TAZ
so yea - zoners will focus more on their concept of exploration ( with transport classified RP ships ) - but they keep 2 cruisers and a gunboat - which is pretty much more than your average trading faction.
if the leviathan becomes a regular SRP capital class dreadnought, they even keep the freaking full military shipline ( any fighter, GB, CR, DE, [DN] )
unless the ppl who think their RP deserves a capital warship are afraid they won t get it.... .
Now. Let's look at that last sentance a moment and take a look at the two factions that have actual warships in the Zoner Populace. (Im not trying to be elitism here everyone, just making an example)
Phoenix.
They're based within the omicrons. One of the worst places in Sirius to live. They actually NEED a warship due to their surroundings. You may ask, "why not ask help from the Order or Corsairs?" Simple. When did you last hear or see Zoners working together with them both at the same time? Myself, not in ages. They can't rely souly on asking help with every problem that occurs require capital assets. They can try like heck, but the odds are very slim. Zoners wont be able to use Order/Corsair capitals as well. Due to such relations and what other Houses might think if they took even a single picture of a Zoner tagged/ID'd Corsair Dread or Order Geb. So they must resort to their own. Which sadly from this, will no longer happen. And Phoenix was very lucky to be able to successfully SRP their own variant of the Leviathan for those means. And actual Zoner Warship, for such occassions.
TAZ.
Based at the crossroads of four houses, (Kusari, Bretonia, Gallia, Liberty) And used by a multitude of factions for trading through the lower taus. With a long standing policy of forbidding Nephilims in combat around the area, there was little need to use them aside from psychological warfare, meaning "We have these that we could use on you, if we needed to" But never have we truely had a need for an actual warship. While publically, in the words of Doc Holiday, we cannot make our alliances public knowledge, we took steps to acquire our own heavy warship, the Persephone. Now we have it, a vessel that took many months and a lot of headaches to acquire. However with ours, we have HEAVY restrictions placed in ours. No PoB equipment like Jump Drives, Only able to travels through very limited systems, and not used to attack anyone except within Baffin. If we loose all our nephilims, and our Leviathan, our psychological advantage is gone. And what is to stop say, The outcasts from sending a multitude of vessels with their professional soldiers into a system stripped of any heavy assets outside a Leviathan turned Nephilim? In which the model still clearly shows as a Colony ship. Which may I remind you we would not use for combat.
Here. You have proof that 2 Zoner factions that actually require the Leviathan and a warship. Now how about making the Zoner's a proper bomber and fighter instead of the oversized junk pile we have that was our VHF? Scuse me SHF. Removing two ships that took a pair of factions months to even acquire and then reverting their uniqueness for something we've had for ages wouldn't be a slap in the face. I'd be a punch in the face with a brick.
Now Im sure people here might however be more willing to a fair trade to cut down on several negative things that have plauged zoners for a while now.
Please take in note the following is a proposition:
(02-23-2014, 07:23 PM)Jinx Wrote: 80 fearless ---> but still amilitary grade cruisers -That's fine with everyone
124 aquillon ---> Keep as is with maybe stat changes
116 nephilim ---> which will become 116 deep space vessels -That's fine
2 leviathan ---> Keep as they are to keep Unique ships in the mod, etc
Osprey SHF ---> Revert to a new/proper VHF model
Zoner Medium(?) Bomber ---> Make one for us to use instead of Civ or other gear at 75% (Civ is 100% i'm aware)
-Bit of a sidenote on players slandering Duv. It was he who helped TAZ out finishing our Leviathan SRP. TAZ would appreciate it if those doing so would keep this in mind before saying such things.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Gytrash - 02-24-2014
STOP ADDING TO MY POSTLOAD! MY RESPONSE TO THIS HAS ALREADY HIT 4000 WORDS AND IM NOT EVEN 1/3 OF THE WAY THROUGH! MY GOD!
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Luis - 02-24-2014
I want to see this Information to be implemented in the game already. This argument that goes back and forth is a time waste, yet not going anywhere. If it is going to happen do it - the idea sounds good and fits well nice on how Zoner's should have always been.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Arioch - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 03:48 AM)SMI-Great.Fox Wrote: 80 fearless ---> which will become nothing but still a freaking military grade cruisers
116 nephilim ---> which will become 116 deep space vessels
124 aquillon ---> which will become 124 large armored transports
3 leviathan ( i think its 3 now ) ---> which will become actual 3 dreadnoughts -2 Actually. Phoenix and TAZ
so yea - zoners will focus more on their concept of exploration ( with transport classified RP ships ) - but they keep 2 cruisers and a gunboat - which is pretty much more than your average trading faction.
if the leviathan becomes a regular SRP capital class dreadnought, they even keep the freaking full military shipline ( any fighter, GB, CR, DE, [DN] )
Actually, there are 3 Leviathans ingame. Phoenix, TAZ, and mine (Approved near a month ago)
Mine though is in the process of being RP'd construction and is entirely a mobile research facility. NOT a warship. Went with the Leviathan model mainly because the model best represents what I am trying to accomplish with a few others. If you want to read more about it, easy to find if you want.
Now on to my thoughts on it (Been keeping from posting here). The new models I think look gorgeous. I really do. BUT, not as replacements to what the Zoners have now. Jinx may say that the lore is not there to support it, but isn't that the whole reasoning behind an RP-centered game? That player actions drive the story/lore? (Apologies if I am repeating words from someone previously) You have people that have invested a TON of time creating lore behind their ships and the ships ingame as they are.
But then a dev/devs can come in, wipe away what has been created by the community for years now, just because? C'mon guys... How many of you actually play as Zoners? Jinx, you used to play them frequently, but you were many times ostracized by the majority of other Zoner players. So no offense intended, but your view of Zoners or how you want them to be doesn't mean that is the final word.
I agree restricting them (Zoner caps) is a good idea. But, Zoners are not traders exclusively. They are not just merchants. Hell, the lore we have at the root of it is people escaping houses to live on the fringes. Nothing there says that you can't over the years develop your own shipyards, shiplines, and large offensive ships to protect eachother and close allies from human or alien threats.
With that said, why can't Zoners advance? Why can't Zoners evolve? Why do they have to adhere to the old lore and be stuck in that rut? Is it really beyond the realm of possibilities for Zoners to evolve and become their own entities and have their own forces and mini-nations? Just because they don't have the backing of a huge house, doesn't mean that they can't obtain money or materials on their own or through dealings to create these colony ships or warships. Should they be offensive minded? Not necessarily. When protecting their home/investments? You damn well better believe they would defend it.
So I ask again, why can't Zoners evolve from the old, set lore, and actually have the need for these caps? (Albeit limited in number)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Unlucky_Soul - 02-24-2014
Quote:So I ask again, why can't Zoners evolve from the old, set lore, and actually have the need for these caps? (Albeit limited in number)
^^ Change is inevitable.
Zoners as a group, well the RP to me has always been in a flux . Many newbies(including myself) have been at wits end to actually know how to RP as a Zoner. The current thought of how Zoners ought to RP be should be analyzed first. For me Zoners represent the freedom of space and the dangers of it. For me the ships that they currently posses and the purpose behind them represents that. Now with the changes being implemented i think we are relegating Zoners to being a solely trading faction, which i think is just focusing an aspect of Zoners and ignoring the rest.
Zoners as always have been neutral and diplomatic. There have been people who say Zoners need to rely on diplomacy and do not need Caps. Well I would want to ask these questions.
How can you be diplomatic to Nomad?
How can you be diplomatic to a hostile party if you know that they are hell bent on shooting/robbing you?
For Diplomacy to work both parties need to have firepower to back it up. Or else one would disregard the other if one side doesn't have the firepower.
I do really think Zoners should evolve from the old lore, maybe make a few enemies in the process. Zoners at the moment do not have a common enemy except nomads (Wild included). Not sure of the coalition though. I think the lore of Zoners to evolve should be concentrated first. The Ships should reflect this lore.
//Sorry if i have repeated anything that others have repeated before.I just thought of posting my view on the subject.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Singularity - 02-24-2014
Whether let Zoners have enemies or not, still doesn't matter, after so many years, Zoners should have sufficient technology and cash to build and maintain those huge ships and residing on deeper space, where they happen to meet "the antagonist" of this game just approx 2 holes away, they should have created a fleet by now, for just in case, someone poses a danger to their home.
And Zoners cannot depend on anyone particular to help them all the time against an attack. About the point, how can they make available such equipments to build a fleet - I must say, Zoners as in particular have the most reliable relation with most houses, so, getting those goods shouldn't be a problem.
As per all the House Spaces, they already have strict laws about not letting those capitals enter their zone. So, basically anyone trying to troll with that will end up getting boomed or escorted back. Just few have the permission in some house spaces, due to their specific RP, that asks them to have one.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Kazinsal - 02-24-2014
Technology and cash is not an issue. Personnel is.
40,000 people split into dozens of different groups and comprising thousands of individual explorers and anarchists cannot maintain a fleet of battleships. No way, no how.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Arioch - 02-24-2014
True, but isn't that again... a dev issue? In the sense of, the people who make the info cards which say how many Zoners live on a Zoner stations?
If you ask me, there should be more Zoner populace, as the fringes include (But not limited to) Taus, Omicrons, Omega's, independant systems between houses. So by lore, Zoners have/should have the technology. Should have the cash. And were it not for Devs or those writing the info cards and station population, should have more than just 40,000.
Look at all the Freeports. The other stations. The multiple planets (Before Devs have removed them from being Zoners)
So really, it seems like the Devs are trying to limit the Zoners on their own, despite what majority of the community has been doing/RP'ing. Hell, one planet theoretically would have enough people to build massive ships and a small-medium sized fleet.
So instead of Dev's changing the Zoners and limiting them to less than what many in the community want, why not actually make server changes that reflect the RP/Lore that we (Zoner players) have created? As I asked before, how many Devs are active Zoner players? Not meant to be an attacking question, but genuinely curious.