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+--- Thread: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 (/showthread.php?tid=98543)
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Xoria - 05-21-2013
"Can demand cargo and credits from lawful and unlawful ships, and attack them if they do not comply within their Zone of Influence."
This should probably really read: "Can demand cargo and credits within their Zone of Influence from lawful and unlawful ships, and attack them if they do not comply."
The first form links the zone of influence to the location of the attack (by which I mean destruction of the target), while the latter form links zone of influence to the demand for cargo and credits. The difference is between whether the rule indicates that piracy must begin within the ZOI but can continue wherever the target flees to (my version), or that piracy in its entirety (including possible destruction of the target) must take place only within the pirate's ZOI and not allowing for a pirate to pursue a target once the target leaves the pirate's ZOI (your version). My understanding of Disco's rules has always been that a pirate can pursue a target anywhere so long as the piracy attempt begins within the pirate's ZOI. My rewrite makes that clearer by directly linking the ZOI to the critical factor in piracy: location of the initial piracy attempt rather than location of the ensuing pursuit.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - SnakeLancerHaven - 05-21-2013
By the way, anyone ever thought about Lawfull and Unlawfull ID? Just saying, would make Unofficial Factions live easier before they plan to get official of course ^_^
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Echo 7-7 - 05-22-2013
(05-21-2013, 09:42 PM)Snake Wrote: By the way, anyone ever thought about Lawfull and Unlawfull ID? Just saying, would make Unofficial Factions live easier before they plan to get official of course ^_^
We have those already. They're called the Freelancer ID and the Pirate ID.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Bakamono - 05-24-2013
These are purely about loopholes created by semantics or contradictions or spelling.
-GMG I.D says players instead of ships
“ - Can engage in piracy against Samura and Kruger players within their Zone of Influence.”
Every other reference to a player character is as a ship. e.g. “- Can hunt any ships”, “...and destroy ships if they refuse...”
It should always be ships rather than players.
Otherwise you will create a semantics loophole where some non-rp combateer decides that he knows the freelancer in front of him is a kruger faction member, therefore a Kruger player and attacks him- legally.
-If Solar can't ally with unlawfuls – are they still gonna be able to exploit their brigands ties?
Same for IND .
I suggest changing to “cannot ally with unlawfuls except for...”
-Samura ID
“Cannot ally with any unlawfuls except for Hogosha or Farmer's Alliance.”
Hogosha are quasi-lawful, so no need for them to be mentioned in that line.
On other I.D's you do not state “may ally with quasilawfuls” because they are assumed to be lawful for those purposes (I assume).
CryerID
marihuana is spelt – marijuana
golden chrysanthemums
“The Golden Chrysanthemums are a revolutionary group who want equal rights for women in Kusari society. They promote Cardamine use in Kusari. They are allied with the Outcasts and the Blood Dragons.”
It was pretty much accepted that the DPK gave women the vote, and that right to vote – which is one of the reasons they were able to win the first kusari election.
So, it's not so much equal rights for women, that's more peaceful like today.
What they do want is a matriarch – there is a rumour they have about not resting until a woman leads the House.
Sometimes I think they mean in an Imperial way – as an Empress. I also think that they promise to legalise cardamine and fight for it – coz without it they die.
Instead of simply “promote” I would say they “are the sole conduit for cardamine into Kusari society.” or something. They are badder than the info makes – and the equal rights is inaccurate at least.
Hogosha ID
“Cannot ally with any lawfuls except for KNF, KSP, and Samura against other unlawfuls only.”
the “other unlawfuls” bit is precluded / made irrelevant by the
“Pilot carrying this quasilawful ID is a member of the Hogosha who:”
they aren't unlawful – so they can't ally against Other Unlawfuls. Remove the word “Other” and it's all good.
Red hessians ID
Bundshuh. - should be Bundschuh
order ID
“with the exception of Alaska, Sigma-19, Sigma-17 and Nomad systems.”
I guess you mean omicrons, not nomad system? “Nomad system” is not obvious since it doesn't use words from the map like everything else. Like – chester could be considered a nomad system, but not an omicron. And of course – all systems are nomad systems.
Coalition ID
“They are considered enemies by all five house,”
should be “houses” and there are seven – the sairs been pushing for house recognition for a long while – and from what I hear are able to deal with houses on their level (if their deal making rumours are true), So are like there.
The O.C always call themselves a house – they have shipyards and a military so why not.
I suggest making it seven or “five lawful houses”
OS&C ID
“Orbital Spa and Cruise is an independent corporation focussing on passenger transport and luxuary resorts for the rich and famous.”
Luxury is misspelled.
Every instance on every ID of
“Refuse to cooperate or are belonging to a house or organisation”
should really be “...or belong to a house or organisation”. The former is a bit lost in translation via indian media-stereotype.
-No zoi for groups in post #2 after I.M.G
This contradicts z.o.i specifications on other faction I.D's who are also sirius wide. Like D.S.E, Ageira, Planetform.
Either leave zoi off sirius wide groups (if it's even needed) or put it on every ID, with specified systems.
Soz about that, there is more I would address but it is less subjective.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Lonely Werewolf - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 12:09 AM)Bakamono Wrote:
golden chrysanthemums
“The Golden Chrysanthemums are a revolutionary group who want equal rights for women in Kusari society. They promote Cardamine use in Kusari. They are allied with the Outcasts and the Blood Dragons.”
It was pretty much accepted that the DPK gave women the vote, and that right to vote – which is one of the reasons they were able to win the first kusari election.
So, it's not so much equal rights for women, that's more peaceful like today.
What they do want is a matriarch – there is a rumour they have about not resting until a woman leads the House.
Sometimes I think they mean in an Imperial way – as an Empress. I also think that they promise to legalise cardamine and fight for it – coz without it they die.
Instead of simply “promote” I would say they “are the sole conduit for cardamine into Kusari society.” or something. They are badder than the info makes – and the equal rights is inaccurate at least.
Just because Women have the right to vote, doesn't mean that there is gender equality. If we look at countries in the real world where women have the right to vote, do you suggest that both genders have completely equal rights? Of course not.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Tabris - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 12:09 AM)Bakamono Wrote: Coalition ID
“They are considered enemies by all five house,”
should be “houses” and there are seven – the sairs been pushing for house recognition for a long while – and from what I hear are able to deal with houses on their level (if their deal making rumours are true), So are like there.
The O.C always call themselves a house – they have shipyards and a military so why not.
I suggest making it seven or “five lawful houses”
Just because Outcasts and Corsairs CALL themselves a House doesn't mean they are in the eyes of Sirius. Their power-rating also puts them below the houses due to to several factors.
While the Outcasts are for example veterans at piloting, their numbers cannot compare to even the weakest of houses due to their ongoing war with the Corsairs sapping at their resources. Also in order to BE a house you must have the economic and/or Industrial power to back it up, and no I do not count the Artifact or Cardamine trade as such as those are singular resources while houses trade MULTIPLE resources. At best they are minor Houses in these terms.
Only thing that's keeping Bretonia from falling into their category is the fact that Liberty is heavily supporting them and preventing their lines from crumbling to itty-bitty peices (until .87).
So while the Corsairs and Outcasts are strong, they are not classified as 'Houses'. Also the Corsairs are only dealing with Kusari (or at least were before the new leadership) , Rheinland and Bretonia absolutely hate em and Liberty well is the only one who would even remotely give them the time of day to even listen to em.
So far the only ones considered a part of the 'Great Houses' as I see them are by Power are : Gallia, Liberty, Rheinland, Bretonia, Kusari
Minor Houses/Powers: Council [Although it CAN be argued they would be considered a 'Greater House Power' due to their ability to hold mulitple systems that produce multiple commodities, stand their ground against Gallia on their own turf and asorted other reasons and when/if Gallia is defeated it is likely the two will merge.), Outcasts/Corsairs (They balance eachother out in respectfully Skill/Numbers), The GMG, IMG, Colonial Republic, Coalition. I would continue but I could go on forever and people will likely argue with em about this.
Point is: The Outcasts/Corsairs arn't recognized as Houses at this time, which is why the ID states 5 Houses in the ID.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - AeternusDoleo - 05-24-2013
- GMG I.D says players instead of ships - Fixed
- Can engage in piracy against Samura and Kruger players within their Zone of Influence. - Fixed
- Hogosha ID - "Cannot ally with any lawfuls except for KNF, KSP, and Samura against other unlawfuls only. the "other unlawfuls" bit is irrelevant - Fixed
- Red hessians ID: Bundshuh. - should be Bundschuh - Fixed
- OS&C ID Luxury is misspelled. Haven't run the spellchecker yet. Fixed.
- CryerID marihuana is spelt – marijuana - Fixed
- If Solar can't ally with unlawfuls – are they still gonna be able to exploit their brigands ties? Same for IND.
Smuggler, not fighter backup. Same for IND. Providing direct combat assistance to pirates means a quasilawful faction goes full unlawful, with rephacks and the works. And that tends to throw a spanner in the smuggling business.
- Samura ID "Cannot ally with any unlawfuls except for Hogosha or Farmer's Alliance."
Hogosha are quasi-lawful, so no need for them to be mentioned in that line.
Just for clarity this. Given the behaviour of Hogosha in the past, people tend to think them unlawful. And they do have strong ties to Samura.
- Golden chrysanthemums: The Golden Chrysanthemums are a revolutionary group who want equal rights for women in Kusari society. They promote Cardamine use in Kusari. They are allied with the Outcasts and the Blood Dragons.
It was pretty much accepted that the DPK gave women the vote, and that right to vote – which is one of the reasons they were able to win the first kusari election. So, it's not so much equal rights for women, that's more peaceful like today. What they do want is a matriarch – there is a rumour they have about not resting until a woman leads the House.
Not sure who came up with that, but that's not what the faction was originally about. Wanting to establish a matriarchical society would mean the end of their alliance with the Blood Dragons as their goals would no longer coincide. It does not make sense for more then a relatively small, extremist portion of the GC to be wanting this. I think this is one of the cases where player faction lore has started to conflict with server lore to the point that if player lore was fully applied to the faction, the faction would effectively implode. Equal rights is one thing, but I don't see young Kusari males line up to support a matriarchy - so the faction loses popular support among the population, and their BD allies. They become isolated, lose members, and effectively cease to be a power at that point.
Either way, I see no reason to put that on the ID.
- Order ID "with the exception of Alaska, Sigma-19, Sigma-17 and Nomad systems." I guess you mean omicrons, not nomad system? "Nomad system" is not obvious since it doesn't use words from the map like everything else. Like – chester could be considered a nomad system, but not an omicron. And of course – all systems are nomad systems. - Fixed
- Coalition ID "They are considered enemies by all five houses..."
If the Hispanics had stuck together instead of fragmented, they could have been House Hispania. But no, neither the Outcasts nor the Corsairs are a house according to server rules. This part stays as is.
- No zoi for groups in post #2 after I.M.G This contradicts z.o.i specifications on other faction I.D's who are also sirius wide. Like D.S.E, Ageira, Planetform. Either leave zoi off sirius wide groups (if it's even needed) or put it on every ID, with specified systems.
I have no clue what you're trying to tell me in this. No action taken therefor. Be more specific. Are you trying to make a case for assigning the BHG and Zoners a fixed ZoI rather then Siriuswide?
Working on some condensing and clarifications now. Will take a while.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - jammi - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 01:34 PM)AeternusDoleo Wrote: Not sure who came up with that, but that's not what the faction was originally about. Wanting to establish a matriarchical society would mean the end of their alliance with the Blood Dragons as their goals would no longer coincide. It does not make sense for more then a relatively small, extremist portion of the GC to be wanting this. I think this is one of the cases where player faction lore has started to conflict with server lore to the point that if player lore was fully applied to the faction, the faction would effectively implode. Equal rights is one thing, but I don't see young Kusari males line up to support a matriarchy - so the faction loses popular support among the population, and their BD allies. They become isolated, lose members, and effectively cease to be a power at that point.I'd disagree here. The Chrysanthemums' goals have never closely coincided with the Blood Dragons' to begin with, so it has always been an alliance of convenience. The pair would likely continue to fight together until they'd defeated their enemies, then turn on each other when their goals fully diverged. At the moment, the primary objective is to defeat the standing military and police forces of Kusari, with what happens next being immaterial until they're in a position to actually act upon that.
Either way, I see no reason to put that on the ID.
The Kishiro backed government did extend the civil powers of women to an extent, but if this had happened completely and even handedly and that "lore was fully applied to the faction, the faction would effectively implode." They'd lose their reason for existing, and simply fade away. Mind you, the main opposition to practical equality wouldn't have been legislative, but cultural. Consider the American civil rights movement, and how long it took for equality to be achieved, despite God-knows how many constitutional amendments that were supposed to secure it. On the ground, the new government's decrees probably seem a bit ineffectual and pointless.
Given that the Chrysanthemums are still fighting on, it stands to reason that the moderates who have been appeased by the minor, token efforts have abandoned the cause, leaving a hardcore of dedicated radicals. Where the demands for a matriarchy may have been very much a minority in the past, the chaff has basically been threshed out. Now you're either a militant matriarch or you've given up the fight and returned to live as an addict within Kusari society, in my opinion.
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - AeternusDoleo - 05-25-2013
Or you just enjoy the life of being a pirate too much that you forfeit ideals and enjoy a life of plundering instead. (See: Unioners, Mollies, Hessians).
RE: Proposal: ID changes for 4.87 - Trail - 05-25-2013
(05-24-2013, 06:10 PM)jammi Wrote: [quote='AeternusDoleo' pid='1344646' dateline='1369398859']
*Snip*
Being mainly a kusari player I do have to agree with Jammi. It really is an alliance of convenience. And even in todays RP the alliance is semi fragile.