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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Gytrash - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 06:02 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: Technology and cash is not an issue. Personnel is.
40,000 people split into dozens of different groups and comprising thousands of individual explorers and anarchists cannot maintain a fleet of battleships. No way, no how.
While your logic is technically sound, you are only looking at the big combined picture.
If you break it down and separate out the officials and indies, and we all know the devs are loathe to do that at all, you will see that the RP behind the official faction's modest fleets have RP logic and reasoning behind them.
TAZ, for example, has only a few BSes (you could count them on one hand). These have various RP reasons why they can be crewed. some have high levels of automation, thereby reducing the needed number of crew to a small amount. Others still, they are RP'd as the captains hiring people to crew it alongside those zoners. again, a bit of automation here as well.
Phoenix, while i dont know for sure i'd assume they'd be similar.
so the official ships are not lore breaking. The lore would, and does, allow for the existance of the zoner caps just not in the numbers we see in game (see below for explanantion)
im sure some indie caps are RP'd in similar ways.
Yes, the hordes of indie caps are lore breaking. but that is due to admin/dev policy regarding indies and caps, and simple mechanics of them being freely available.
combining all zoners in an attempt to justify this proposal are therefore flawed, in the same way as devs combining 2 different poll options, just to attempt to justify their actions.
so there are two loical courses of actions available to the devs:
1. follow Drrobe's suggestion to adapt decisions to gel with lore (plenty of ways to do this have been suggested before)
or
2. buff zoners (infocards, etc) to match what exists now so, again, it gels and makes sense. that means fixing zoner population numbers among other things
-Sabre
Also Kaz. Gran Canaria alone has between 500 and 800 thousand on it.And that's only after a retcon that didn't make much sense. I'll address that in my megapost.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Kazinsal - 02-24-2014
The people of Gran Canaria are settlers and common folk, not starship builders. They're also not all Zoners; there are Bretonians, Coalitioners, Corsairs, and random wanderers there too who don't fit under the Zoner banner.
And they're not a single dedicated Zoner group, either.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Sath - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 06:59 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: The people of Gran Canaria are settlers and common folk, not starship builders. They're also not all Zoners; there are Bretonians, Coalitioners, Corsairs, and random wanderers there too who don't fit under the Zoner banner.
And they're not a single dedicated Zoner group, either.
I dont guess the Council people,who are running from the Gallics and are highly reduced in number due to their exile cannot build warships either.That too of the size and power of a Redemption.
When people who are on the run and can never be in one place due to the war and are scattered around Bretonia and the other regions,they can never organise to build one warship,if that is all going by the lore.There can be thousands of loopholes in lore that can be pointed out and said.I mean that,and if people can sit along and study the loresof each and every group,the entire shipline of some groups might have to be changed.Just that we are enough settled and ok with these issues keeps many from going on moaning about minor loopholes in the lore and bragging the devs to change X/Y ships,stations.
But specifically deprieving Zoners of their assets rather than the other groups has been a major policy now right?
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Kazinsal - 02-24-2014
The Council has settled a system and had much greater numbers than the Zoners ever will before they had to flee Gallia.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Sath - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 07:27 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: The Council has settled a system and had much greater numbers than the Zoners ever will before they had to flee Gallia.
That was before.What about now?
If speaking in the lore point of view,shouldnt their Battleships be gone now,since they are fleeing.Their BS production would be stopped by now,as they are no longer the opposition force they were when they occupied the Languedoc system.
Now,if going by the current storyline,they are deprieved,more than the Zoners are,scattered,which makes no sense to how they build BS.Though the redemption still stands,just because it is there from the previous version.
C'mon I can point out more things like this.When I can(I am a newbie),what about others(the vets who have been following every single change here) if they start complaining about loopholes in the lore?It is good as long as they dont,and this attempt just provoke everyone into doing the same.It will be a chaos then,no more fun,but just another forum,lore related game.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Thyrzul - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 07:19 AM)sathish.wazza Wrote: I dont guess the Council people,who are running from the Gallics and are highly reduced in number due to their exile cannot build warships either.That too of the size and power of a Redemption.
When people who are on the run and can never be in one place due to the war and are scattered around Bretonia and the other regions,they can never organise to build one warship,if that is all going by the lore.There can be thousands of loopholes in lore that can be pointed out and said.I mean that,and if people can sit along and study the loresof each and every group,the entire shipline of some groups might have to be changed.Just that we are enough settled and ok with these issues keeps many from going on moaning about minor loopholes in the lore and bragging the devs to change X/Y ships,stations.
But specifically deprieving Zoners of their assets rather than the other groups has been a major policy now right?
Oi, somebody said Council? (bandit)
Thing is, as Kaz said the Council is still more numerous than zoners will ever be, however we are still the underdogs, we don't build battleships, but salvage/steal and refit them, if not, then work with what we got. That said, we got like 30 Redemptions collecting dust up in Champagne, surrounded by a way greater force and 5 Redemptions in Roussillon, and then Obstinates in about the same rates, like 68/11, etc. Champagne is at a stalemate with it's surroundings, and Roussillon is underdefended. So far there has been one new Redemption refitted since the arrival to Roussillon.
Now, I would be pretty much up to restricting capital ships to official factions only in case of certain factions with limited access to battleships by lore as both a reward to be able to fly battleships as well as a responsibility to keep their in-game amount controlled and as authentic as possible. Such cases could include but not limited to Council, Hessians, IMG, Zoners, Corsairs, Outcasts, etc, you name the faction who's indies + caps you have a problem with or which faction makes no sense to have a lot of caps... But of course the dev policy isn't about nerfing the indie playerbase at all, is it? If we nerf, why not everybody?
Thing is, as Kaz said the Council is still more numerous than zoners will ever be, however we are still the underdogs, we don't build battleships, but salvage/steal and refit them, if not, then work with what we got. That said, we got like 30 Redemptions collecting dust up in Champagne, surrounded by a way greater force and 5 Redemptions in Roussillon, and then Obstinates in about the same rates, like 68/11, etc. Champagne is at a stalemate with it's surroundings, and Roussillon is underdefended. So far there has been one new Redemption refitted since the arrival to Roussillon.
Now, I would be pretty much up to restricting capital ships to official factions only in case of certain factions with limited access to battleships by lore as both a reward to be able to fly battleships as well as a responsibility to keep their in-game amount controlled and as authentic as possible. Such cases could include but not limited to Council, Hessians, IMG, Zoners, Corsairs, Outcasts, etc, you name the faction who's indies + caps you have a problem with or which faction makes no sense to have a lot of caps... But of course the dev policy isn't about nerfing the indie playerbase at all, is it? If we nerf, why not everybody?
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Sath - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 07:52 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:(02-24-2014, 07:19 AM)sathish.wazza Wrote: I dont guess the Council people,who are running from the Gallics and are highly reduced in number due to their exile cannot build warships either.That too of the size and power of a Redemption.
When people who are on the run and can never be in one place due to the war and are scattered around Bretonia and the other regions,they can never organise to build one warship,if that is all going by the lore.There can be thousands of loopholes in lore that can be pointed out and said.I mean that,and if people can sit along and study the loresof each and every group,the entire shipline of some groups might have to be changed.Just that we are enough settled and ok with these issues keeps many from going on moaning about minor loopholes in the lore and bragging the devs to change X/Y ships,stations.
But specifically deprieving Zoners of their assets rather than the other groups has been a major policy now right?
Oi, somebody said Council? (bandit)
Thing is, as Kaz said the Council is still more numerous than zoners will ever be, however we are still the underdogs, we don't build battleships, but salvage/steal and refit them, if not, then work with what we got. That said, we got like 30 Redemptions collecting dust up in Champagne, surrounded by a way greater force and 5 Redemptions in Roussillon, and then Obstinates in about the same rates, like 68/11, etc. Champagne is at a stalemate with it's surroundings, and Roussillon is underdefended. So far there has been one new Redemption refitted since the arrival to Roussillon.
Now, I would be pretty much up to restricting capital ships to official factions only in case of certain factions with limited access to battleships by lore as both a reward to be able to fly battleships as well as a responsibility to keep their in-game amount controlled and as authentic as possible. Such cases could include but not limited to Council, Hessians, IMG, Zoners, Corsairs, Outcasts, etc, you name the faction who's indies + caps you have a problem with or which faction makes no sense to have a lot of caps... But of course the dev policy isn't about nerfing the indie playerbase at all, is it? If we nerf, why not everybody?
Yes,I support that though.Nerf the Indy players to BS not just for Zoners but to all other factions alike.Why removing the Zoner Juggy when people have put so much effort into it?I can foresee many things that might follow.
One such was mentioned in my previous post.The selling of Zoner Academy.That guy wanted to start his RP as a Zoner by organising an Orphanage,bought a Fearless,earned some more money,then bought a Nephilim just recently.He RPed with it as an orphanage and even helped out 2 or 3 people with new ships and a RP story background as orphans in his orphanage.
Now when he finds this,wont it be very disturbing,given that he spent more time in acquiring the Nephilim and even more time writing the forum stuff,gathering people for his RP and such.And the result is,he is selling of his RP in the forums now.Why dont the devs just care to see what is happening around?If they had discussed this issue transparently,I meant transparency which doesnt include one poll after a year of some pointless discussion,the people who were RPing with their BS could have adopted to the change.
So,if at all the devs are going to change their decision to restrict the Nephilims to SRP or official factions,then do the same with all other factions.The main problem with indy caps,now,is not Zoner,but Liberty caps.I am seeing some people who just pew pew than do RP.I see some who cant RP a single line or two before making the pirates into spacedust,even,in many cases as a pirate,I wanted the discussion to prolong,but to find myself dead within 3 minutes of any RP inside NY.I even had a sour encounter where a guy came in a LABC,while I was trying to RP with a indy navy Guardian(in my falchion,VHF!!!) and just stopped there,shot me dead without one damn word.What did I do?Nothing,since I didnt give him any warning before he shot me and I had no chance to teach him,I left him as such.
Restrict the lolwut Overlords and Atlantis and the LABCs that roam around NY.Then disco would be a RP heaven.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Singularity - 02-24-2014
Its bit more moving aside the topic. But still as said round and round, do look to the pros and cons of doing what you say is changing the way Zoners should play.
I still fail to understand why is there a cry over rise in capital ships i.e. Battleships of Zoners. If it has to do with something about increase in activity in O-99, then just put up a restriction in Zoner and similar factions IDs.
Increase in O-99, is understandable though, as the only way of getting those what is required is found there and without a considerable Force or a strong Battleship, It would be difficult to carry it out.
Although its an OORP stuff, but this is how it is made to get it. But for such a thing, the entire Zoner Community shouldn't pay for it.
I am pretty sure, these hasty situation might have arisen due to increase in O-99 activity but as said, why would the Zoner Factions have to pay for it ? Put an exception for O-99 in Zoner ID and that pretty much sums the work.
and I am dead assured its not about any Zoner Battleships in House Spaces, because most are either permitted/approved and others (rarely) go their searching for some fun in disguise of RP or getting blasted.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - 7AlphaOne1 - 02-24-2014
New story :
Marduk turns up. laughs at zoners new 'caps' , shoots them, Big Boom! zoners down, marduk goes away
I am holding my tongue ( fingers in this case) just because Aerelm said so. If this goes on, I dont think forums Rage/Flame/Troll/Quit/catfights scene is too far.
Seriously, have you even logged in the last 3 months , Jinx? Read the hathor description: Zoners developed it. and I dont think such shipwrights could resist nephilims and aquilons.
If you are ready to allow zoners to use Osiris/Overlord/Mako/Kirk/KuBS/Turtle/ Togo, and reimburse zoners for every penny they lost, I am game for it.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Kazinsal - 02-24-2014
Zoners should stop sending heavy transports into places known to have large concentrations of Nomads then.