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+----- Thread: Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread (/showthread.php?tid=9130)
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Blodo - 03-13-2011
I'll throw in my two cents...
I don't see how, when a smuggler is identified, only a part of the Police/Military forces would receive the tip off, while the others (those who control docking rings for example) would be for some reason omitted from obtaining a list of known smugglers, even though I would figure this is why their job is in place: to ensure proper flow of traffic in/out of bases/planets.
The whole argument seems to be ludicrous from the get go. If you are spotted while smuggling and then actually scanned (which implies you let a cop into your 4k range so that he can scan you), expect RP consequences. If you want to be able to dock on lawful bases no matter what, make a lawful (or better yet corporate) trader.
But if people really do want to defend themselves after caught while smuggling, maybe the RM could make a "complaints" thread in the comms section where they could have some due process in RP or something.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - MarvinCZ - 03-13-2011
I sent you (The_Major) an informative PM about this, maybe you have blocked PMs, or your box is full... or you ignored me.
' Wrote:The criminal database was open to all traders iRP and even if it wasn't, you easily could have checked it and seen yourself in it in an OORP manner.Even if he checked, he wouldn't find himself if he didn't try exceptionally hard. His name "LosSnuggleros" doesn't appear anywhere in the thread.
Yes, that's right.
There's only a misspelled version: "LosSnuggerlos". That's why he didn't find anything even when he actively searched for it. Don't blame him for not finding it.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Sturmwind - 03-13-2011
It seems I missed your PM, I got a lot of those in the past few days.
All I can comment on that is what I said in my previous post, starting from the "ignorance doesn't exempt liability" part.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - BaconSoda - 03-13-2011
' Wrote:Baconsoda, your assumption of those Freelancers (which is in fact one guy) being RM personnel is entirely incorrect and I don't even see why you would think we're patrolling on hidden characters instead of using our own.
I believe I already linked you sufficient evidence that we're in long standing interaction with the Freelancer catching you here (post 17), which is all visible and available in public.
Here is the private message indicating your catch from the same person interacting with us previously. He sent me it in PM because Freelancers don't have access to the criminal database. Here is the RM roster. Adam Spire is not on it, that negates your assumption that he is in an RM member on an alternate character.
The criminal database was open to all traders iRP and even if it wasn't, you easily could have checked it and seen yourself in it in an OORP manner.
Allow me to cite one of the most relevant articles in the laws of Rheinland.
The same way how ignorance of being caught doesn't negate the fact that you were caught.
I also trust you understand that Rheinland is littered by smugglers, a few days ago I spent 3 hours running around the lanes and catching about 15 guys with illegal stuff in his hold.
We cannot title a comms message to every single smuggler or criminal that evades prosecution, we have a lot of ground to cover considering how we're the only active lawful faction in Rheinland and we cannot deal with the problems of everyone individually. Instead, there is a central collection of all criminals, where criminals can see that they are criminals. Just because they don't know of it, that doesn't mean they are innocent.
In addition, you landed on New Berlin, our best guarded and most prized establishment in Rheinland, we can debate whether a full cargo hold of artifacts carried by a gigantic ship would not be spotted by planetside security anyway. Perhaps if you were to bother with actually trying to avoid being caught and not using the lanes / players list when smuggling, things would have turned out to be different. That too, is quite a "lame" act as far as I'm concerned.
At any rate, incidents like this will not be occurring again, since I have given the Freelancer in question permit to confiscate cargo that violates the laws of Rheinland a few days ago here.
If you are so disappointed about being caught, you can always rename / re-rep, but I'm not taking you off the list, simply because of the fact that you were caught violating Rheinland laws in Rheinland.
As a final note, the Rheinland Military, nor the Federal Police are not meant to be carebear nice guys you can see in other Houses. We have a revolution going on exactly because the government and its arms treat situations like this with utter hostility and brutality. Getting shot because you committed one act is a perfectly role play measure, especially considering how the Riot Police is using live firearms to deal with protests or how we don't give a quarter to any civilians who decide to willingly oppose the Rheinland government by violating its laws.
I'll say something right here: I have four trade characters. I don't care about getting Faction Right 5ed. I can just get a bribe and reverse it. It's not a big deal. What is a big deal is that you're not taking the responsibility of an official faction. If new player looks at you right now, they think "Oh, hey, being official or being an RM means that I can be a total jerk towards everyone!" because that's how you're acting. That's not the kind of example the RM should be giving to new players.
Okay, I was caught by a "Trusted Freelancer." Now I explained, because you are the only one who makes the posts and everything is done in secret, it looks like these Freelancers are just you. That's how it looks. Now I've been told otherwise by a couple of folks. I'm sure Adam Spire is a fine upstanding person and if we were in the same room, we'd both get along well and have a wild party. But if I didn't know any better, I would say that Adam Spire was just you because of the way it was carried out.
I'm not ignorant of Rheinland Law. I know well I'm breaking it almost everyday. That's my role. It's your role to catch me. Okay, you did that. Now are you going to do anything with it? No, you're going to put it in a little vault and ask the Admins to do something about it. Now you're telling me I'm lame for playing my role while you honestly could not even be bothered to play yours. But, wait, you expected me to see my name in the Communications Channel which has the most ridiculous turnover on the forums, buried in a thread I didn't even know existed, where my name is spelled incorrectly (Thank you Marvin for pointing that out)? You didn't even put the effort in to spell the names correctly! And you're calling ME lame!? Talk about a case of mistaken identity.
But you know what? You've made it very apparent you don't care. You've made it very apparent that your version of RP is completely selfish and self-entitled. I guess you don't care about that either; it fits the personality. That's not the kind of behavior fitting of an official faction. I don't think I asked for anything hard. I just asked for you to make a separate thread where you directly communicate with those Freelancers (maybe in the Bounty section as a bounty particularly for them, so they can get paid now), take the reports out of quotes in your thread (Also take the time to spell the names correctly now that this has been pointed out), and make another template to put in the communications thread section when you catch nine smugglers to FR5 once every eight months. Would that really be so hard? It would be about half an hour of effort to make you look a lot less like a jerk.
EDIT: Blodo I was never caught by a cop or an RM.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - casero - 03-14-2011
The use of the FR5 was perfectly fine from my point of view.
A smuggler gets caught, by a lawful (RM, RFP, or a trusted FL), they send a notice to don't let that ship land in any of their bases.
Why should the RM call this smuggler to inform him that he's probably going to get arrested for his crimes?
Not very efficient, instead, the smuggler will only find that out, when he approaches one of their bases, or finds a patrol.
If they inform the smuggler, he might never return. He might pay the fine, but he could also run away. Why to take that risk? I think the RM decision was right.
Bacon, you came here with a bad attitude, and from a start, that was totally wrong, you called them jerks, if you wanted them to change the way they work, that was not the best move.
This is a two ways street, you complain because they didn't give you space to RP this incident, but you refused to RP it the way it was given to you. Because, the admin notice about the FR5, is to inform you about the reputation change, so you don't think it's a game mechanic error, you should have taken that notice, and communicated to the RM that in your last trip you were unable to land on their bases, or that you got attacked by one of their patrols, or whatever.
You just want this to be played your way, when they want to play it their way.
To the RM, please check the spelling, and having the FL to post in public forum would be better as well, he could even use an alt account, but at least it would look legitimate.
: )
PD: I'd like to point out, that I understand why you got angry because of how it was done, Bacon. But for the person who used to handle the complaints against the Phantoms, you should know that things don't go always the way we want, and that shouldn't be a reason to get mad and disrespect other people.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - BaconSoda - 03-14-2011
Well, let me answer your question with another question: why would a Pirate Transport ask for cargo from another transport, when he would really just take it? It makes more sense to just space the guy. A lot less hassle, and what do you care about him? We ask to give the person a chance. We want the interaction to be more than "Oh, it's a Corsair" *Albatross has died*.
That's the kind of attitude that should be kept by an official faction. I was playing my role. I was smuggling. The RM never caught me. A Freelancer did. The Freelancer never said "You'll be expected to pay a fine." or anything of the sort that he's actually connected to Rheinland and that my (misspelled) name will magically appear on a database of horrible criminals who are secretly and silently told to pay a fine. I was just talked to by an Eagle, put on a list that I would never see (it was posted in this morning and is on page 4 of the communications thread), and then FR5ed. Where is the interaction?
If I can compare this to something that would happen ingame, I was just SNACed while I was typing, while I was the only one there. Sure, it's allowed if there was RP, but it was mean and nasty. It's a lot more fun to actually fight the person. The fun of the fight comes from the satisfaction of having won or given him a run for his money.
And you know, I am a member of the Phantoms and I do handle complaints, but we give people a chance to respond, a chance to talk, a chance to play their role in response. Things might not go the way of the person who tried to mash Shift+W, thrust away, repeatedly ask what I am doing, or cry for help, but we give them the opportunity to try it. I wasn't given the opportunity. I was spotted by a Freelancer in an Eagle and chatted up for a little bit. I wasn't told about the breaking of laws, paying a fine, or ever given the chance to account for myself, and I'll upload that here when I get back on my gaming computer.
I've learned another thing from being on my Phantom. I will RP, always, but if someone does not commit to RPing back, then I can only try so hard. This is one of those moments. I have RPed ingame, but they have decided that they will not commit to responding to that RP they just FR5ed me. Sure, I could write out my life story to someone chasing me around shooting me, but you know what? Do they really care about the RP I have to offer if they just follow me around shooting me? No. Obviously The Major does not care about responding to my RP either. That is why I called this interaction selfish and I stand by that claim.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Valinor - 03-14-2011
Honestly, i read your posts and i don't see anything else but hate and bad attitude, you pretty much told us everything you could have told, starting from being pvp whores to avoiding roleplay, to intentionally write a name wrong, to intentionally post a topic that ended up on page 4 of the communication channel, to intentionally use freelancers to catch smugglers and probably something else i forgot to mention.
Now, you may as well notice that if we were such persons, there woudn't be any post here, we woudn't even bother to answer you back, nor keep reading your accusations and still trying to be fair.
You may as well ask to everyone else that met us, to know how actually we are, instead of just basing your idea of us on your anger.
You want to discuss it? You keep it civil, respecting the "other" side.
You may also want to notice that the FR5 was approved by the Admin Team. And you may also know that they check FR5 before approving them.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - casero - 03-14-2011
' Wrote:Well, let me answer your question with another question: why would a Pirate Transport ask for cargo from another transport, when he would really just take it? It makes more sense to just space the guy. A lot less hassle, and what do you care about him? We ask to give the person a chance. We want the interaction to be more than "Oh, it's a Corsair" *Albatross has died*.
That's the kind of attitude that should be kept by an official faction. I was playing my role. I was smuggling. The RM never caught me. A Freelancer did. The Freelancer never said "You'll be expected to pay a fine." or anything of the sort that he's actually connected to Rheinland and that my (misspelled) name will magically appear on a database of horrible criminals who are secretly and silently told to pay a fine. I was just talked to by an Eagle, put on a list that I would never see (it was posted in this morning and is on page 4 of the communications thread), and then FR5ed. Where is the interaction?
If I can compare this to something that would happen ingame, I was just SNACed while I was typing, while I was the only one there. Sure, it's allowed if there was RP, but it was mean and nasty. It's a lot more fun to actually fight the person. The fun of the fight comes from the satisfaction of having won or given him a run for his money.
And you know, I am a member of the Phantoms and I do handle complaints, but we give people a chance to respond, a chance to talk, a chance to play their role in response. Things might not go the way of the person who tried to mash Shift+W, thrust away, repeatedly ask what I am doing, or cry for help, but we give them the opportunity to try it. I wasn't given the opportunity. I was spotted by a Freelancer in an Eagle and chatted up for a little bit. I wasn't told about the breaking of laws, paying a fine, or ever given the chance to account for myself, and I'll upload that here when I get back on my gaming computer.
I've learned another thing from being on my Phantom. I will RP, always, but if someone does not commit to RPing back, then I can only try so hard. This is one of those moments. I have RPed ingame, but they have decided that they will not commit to responding to that RP they just FR5ed me. Sure, I could write out my life story to someone chasing me around shooting me, but you know what? Do they really care about the RP I have to offer if they just follow me around shooting me? No. Obviously The Major does not care about responding to my RP either. That is why I called this interaction selfish and I stand by that claim.
Now is your chance to play with them, but instead, you are here crying, get over the Q_Q "they FR5'd me for breaking Rheinland's laws". You carried contraband, they had a Freelancer working for them that reported you to them, what the hell is wrong with that?
Funny that you say they avoided roleplaying with you, when your Role is to avoid being caught, right?
Do you send messages to the RM whenever you are carrying contraband? Of course not, it would be stupid, but no one cries to you because you don't do that, that's your Role. Their Role is to enforce the law, fight the LN and destroy the revolution, they are not meant to tell your smuggler anything if they don't want.
Snaced while typing? Right now, they CD'd you, it's up to them to talk to you, and it's up to you if you want to talk to them.
Quote:Do they really care about the RP I have to offer if they just follow me around shooting me?
Do you stop to talk to lawfuls when you carry contraband, or you just fly away, and when they can't catch you, you decide to offer your RP.
Yes, it's a lot easier to show off your great RP when you are not in range to CD's, but hey, didn't work this time, and here's your great RP... complaining in a feedback thread.
Your great RP should start now, solve the problems with them with RP, not with complaints.
If you carried contraband, if you got caught, if you got FR5'd, I call that enough RP.
It wasn't the RM who caught you? It was someone hired to do that exact things, now, that's valid.
They didn't decide to use the Eagle to catch you, it just happened.
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - Curios - 03-14-2011
On KPT all trade law breakers were given the 24 hours to pay a fine. Silently FR5'ing people is just, hm. meh.
This way i can just roll in a merc, sit for few hours somewhere making screens, then huge list of FR5'd people will appear - is it right? Maybe, perhaps, i assume, it's a bit not that good.
PS: Casero you left disco, stop spam the forum;)
Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread - casero - 03-14-2011
' Wrote:On KPT all trade law breakers were given the 24 hours to pay a fine. Silently FR5'ing people is just, hm. meh.
This way i can just roll in a merc, sit for few hours somewhere making screens, then huge list of FR5'd people will appear - is it right? Maybe, perhaps, i assume, it's a bit not that good.
PS: Casero you left disco, stop spam the forum;)
I asked to FR5 people without informing them, break the law, get caught, that's all.
We also used information in benefict of kusari, information that the KPT got with FL ID'd ships, which for me it is right as they were undercover agents (much like independent freelancers working for RM), but if you are against silently FRg'ing people, you should be against silently spying on people (And you shouldn't use KPT as an example if they did exactly the same thing).
Silently FR5'ing people is fine, how people act after is what really matters.
PS: I'll keep spaming as long as it's necessary, or until The_Major tells me to stop posting here.