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+--- Thread: Zoner IDs (/showthread.php?tid=10454)
Zoner IDs - chopper - 07-17-2008
Jinx, are you aware that what you are proposing is actually hurting Zoners?
Look at it this way. There are people who want to trade until they can buy an Outcast BS (just an example here, it can be any BS/CR/GB).
These people use Zoner ID's to trade for their Outcast BS's. And no one who ever wants to dock on a Freeport can't harm them.
Look at it this way.
I will pirate a Zoner. If that Zoner speaks to Zoner council and convinces it to take actions - I will accept the consequence.
But if he starts yelling in system about breaking the rules and god knows what... I will think of him as Nomad. And destroy him.
It's actually that simple.
If that Zoner is important enough to punish me for my actions, then I will pay for my actions.
If he's not - he just got robbed and he can't do a damn thing about it, because Zoners prefer their neutrality over some change (cash meaning).
Zoner IDs - Zapp - 07-17-2008
Yeah, it all comes down to them. I agree with Chopper, though I see what you're saying Jinx. Just because you decide to pop a Zoner ship, doesnt mean you hate them, rather it means you're an oppurtunistic person, who would blow up a Zoner if it meant gaining a profit, and still (in that same mindset) land on Freeports - because you're taking advantage of situations.
1 up
Zoner IDs - Jinx - 07-17-2008
the original question was .... more something like treating a zoner without a zoner IFF to be no zoner. ( an idea that appears only to apply to zoners and to no other faction, or at least i haven t seen such a suggestion to pop up for any other faction yet )
the idea is that players are exploiting the zoner ID - but i think thats a bit much to interprete into a missing IFF. - treating a zoner by how he behaves, - thats something i can live with ... as long as i think of the char to be a 100% zoner if he has a zoner ID.
if i treat a zoner with a zoner ID but no zoner tag to be less from the start, i don t give that person a great chance to prove he is a zoner. - mind you, its like treating a Navy pilot with a police IFF or no IFF to be less. ( i have seen quite some playerfaction players that had no IFF yet .... you say, they are factioning up... but i don t know if the zoner in question is possibly factioning up, too )
what i really like is - fairness and the same chance for every faction there. - i don t want special factions with special rules. we have enough of them already. - zoners are the very same like outcasts and corsairs or the LPI. if you have their ID, you are part of their group. if you don t act like them, you are ooRP.
i am aware of the type of player that only trades to get his battleship, - come to that, ... thats how i got mine, too. - i made up a lot of my RP well AFTER i tested out not only one battleship, but like 3 in a row. - hey, i took the "go discover" crap i was told when i started literally.
it DOES help to think of another player as a competent and smart being. - that player can prove me to be wrong by acting ooRP or like an ass, but i start out thinking of a player to be competent enough to RP his char. - the ID gives me a basic idea what he is RPing... i don t care for the rest. if i see an outcast dreadnaught with a zoner ID and an outcast tag - and i am on my BHG, - guess what, i don t panic cause i see a big bad outcast - i see the ZONER there. i don t know the story behind it, - maybe he will open fire and taunt me in a leet way afterwards... that would prove me wrong. - but maybe he has a good story that i simply don t know ( my fault ) - and it proves his RP to be just the way it should be.
i see the ID primarily - the rest is roleplay. - those that buy a battleship after powertrading can turn out to be good RPers - or not, but it is not really up to me to decide over them at that time.
Zoner IDs - RickJames - 07-17-2008
Both my Traders are Zoners. RickJames and [ZR]-The-White-Rose.
I love to pay tax's...which I always call donations.
I often ask unlawfuls if they are in need of anything before they even ask me.
Just posting this to keep the Zoner reputation up. Were not all angry newbies who have a grudge against pirates. I actually think their a little sexy.. :ylove:
Zoner IDs - chopper - 07-17-2008
Quote:what i really like is - fairness and the same chance for every faction there.
And that's pretty much impossible when one and only one faction is neutral. Fair?
As much as Zoners are neutral, Corsairs and Outcasts are pirates.
First do their job, second ones do their.
For example, if RM killed 3 Liberty Navy indies in Rheinland space because they did not want to leave the area, would it be fair for official Liberty Navy to declare war on Rheinland?
I wouldn't say so.
Fairness is to tax them just like any other trader. If you'r looking for fair then that's pretty much it.
Also, if a Mercenary kills an Outcast for a bounty, it doesn't necessarily means that he'll be KoS-ed and forbidden to land on Malta.
It's pure business.
So is pirating.
Zoner IDs - RickJames - 07-17-2008
Oh..forgot to mention it.
YES! Zoners should be just as likely to get pirated as any other faction.
As for Pirates and their allies.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pirates are criminals, as such they will steal from each other as much as they do everyone else.
Corsairs pirating Corsairs..you bet it happens.
Outcasts pirating Outcasts..well..what else would they do if their cardi supply is low and their far from Malta.
So if its plausible that these groups occasionally steal from each other..them stealing from Zoners who have a notorious reputation for being filthy RICH traders is absolutely justified.
Zoner IDs - Dra1003 - 07-17-2008
..well.. ill be sure to pirate every trader i see on my corsair..except maybe junkers and sumara
Zoner IDs - Jinx - 07-17-2008
chopper, i think we re talking about different things. - fairness of how to treat a player is what i mean. - a player with a zoner ID is to be treated just like any other player with zoner ID.
i really don t care who pirates or who does not. - i wrote about the consequences that every player himself must take or leave - i couldn t care less. ...
but what i mean with fairness is : you don t consider a zoner with ID / IFF a better zoner than one with "only" an ID but no matching IFF. - the rules say that the ID is all important...... treat players that way. - for the love of whoever.... pirate, rape, pillage them all - but do it all the same to them no matter if they have a matching IFF or not.
about consequences - this is purely down to roleplay. - if three zoners ( note here, i don t make a difference between players in a playerfaction or not ) are killed by corsairs, - the zoners CAN bunch up together. - rumor on the bases say that the zoners stick together. - they do so, cause they have to. - if three "indie" liberty players are killed in rheinland... its entirely up to the liberty players to ignore that fact or draw consequences, - but thats their business.
but lets put it that way :
the lore on freeport 9 has a nice little story. - a zoner mated with a corsair woman. - he took her from the corsairs and they went to a freeport. - now the corsairs were a little mad. they went out and took this woman back and the zoner in question ran for his life. - that does not mean that the zoners do not supply the corsairs with overpriced food anymore - but it shows that the zoners do take notice from such incidends, even if they happen on a very low, almost private level - cause nothing is too private there.
the zoners won t start a war. - but such incidents are remembered, - they are taken into rumors and spread - creating an atmosphere of unease. the lore furhter says that the zoner was threatened to be killed by the corsairs and is in hiding. - now, the corsairs that were involved will most certainly NOT go and buy gear from the zoners anymore. - not cause the zoners don t sell them anymore - but cause THEY choose not to deal with the zoners anymore who disgraced their siblings.
thats what i talked about when it comes to consequences.
thats totally disconnected from any powertrader exploiting a zoner ID. - thats about how the relationship between those factions is structured. - some are dependent but not begging, the others can dry them out, but are no masters of the corsairs. - thats how dependency works there - one faction can starve the other, the other would still not hesitate to kill them - BUT both sides take the consequences from what they do. - smaller events won t affect the relationship, bigger ones though...... .
but as i said, that was not the point of the OP. - soo... what is that zoner that mated the corsair woman, a zoner with ID and IFF? or a zoner with ID but no matching IFF..... . - or maybe, we realize that it doesn t matter - but all that matter is what he did. - the ID tells you were you belong to - your behaviour tells others who you are. - but a behaviour is hardly something you have on your scanners.... its something you have to experience. - so we cannot mark down zoners with ID, but no IFF as second class zoners and free to be attacked ( if we would - at the same time - not attack them if they had a matching IFF and were engaged in the council )
Zoner IDs - chopper - 07-17-2008
Why should I respect someone who doesn't care to spend 2 hours to fix his tag?
I mean, if he has a good reason for not having it, or for having another, I will find it out during RP-ing with him/her.
But if he only wants to trade trade trade and tells pirates he's invincible.. Well, his problem.
ID is what is important, but so is tag.
I'v seen a zillion of other cases that happened because of the tag.
It's like saying I should respect a Corsair in a Sabre with Hacker tag just because he has Corsair ID.
No, he's not a Corsair to me, he's a spy, and will be shot after a warning. I am skeptical even to those who decide not to fly Corsair ships.
I don't know if we'r speaking about two things here, but I feel that you think Zoners are treated unfairly.
Which just isn't true. It happens with other factions as well.
Get a proper tag!
And as for the last part of your post.. Trust me, I had no problems taxing TAZ folks, or other Zoners.
Pure business.
Zoner IDs - Jinx - 07-17-2008
"Why should I respect someone who doesn't care to spend 2 hours to fix his tag?"
i don t know - i cannot tell you why you should, i can only tell you what i do. - i don t even THINK of "someone not caring to spend 2 hours to fix a tag" - i am thinking in char in a situation.... my char sees an ID and acts appropriately.
and thats all about it. - i m trying not to think as a player, but mostly as a character... and my char cares very little for what the other player might or might not be too lazy to fix a tag. - if he acts according to his ID, its fine. - if not, i ignore him.
if he harms my gameplay in a very detrimental way - i report him. and thats it.
"I don't know if we'r speaking about two things here, but I feel that you think Zoners are treated unfairly."
again, not at all - i may repeat it again... in my opinion, you could pirate and destroy zoners without taxing them or anything in your biggest baddest battleships. - the only point i consider unfair is to treat someone without an IFF worse than someone with one. - i treat every corsair the same, no matter what IFF he has - as long as he has a corsair ID. - and i do so with every other faction as well.
the only factions that i DO care for their tag / ship ... are generic factions like freelancer, mercs, military.