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+---- Thread: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions (/showthread.php?tid=110566)
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - RedEclipse - 01-20-2014
Another thread by Jinx about Zoners. Do you even play them, btw? Or try to contact Zoner official factions to solve this "problem" somehow?
As from my pov, Zoners doesn't need to be fixed, but this server. There''s alot of another examples "why do they even have capital ships". Deal with it, it's disco. If you want to change Zoners, same should be implied with other factions.
But if you thinking about how to not repeat ORI/ZA scenario again, solution is limit caps to SRPs(SRP requirements needs to be reduced, to be sure it's going to be RP ship, not tool for PvP) and official factions. Problem solved.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Zuretz - 01-20-2014
Well, Zoners need to be able to defend themselfs effectivelly if needed to, not really to win an all out war, but at least to protect a convoy or the families living at freeports, for example. Therefore i believe theyr warships will always be necessary, some of them maybe even with a little more firepower to make an upstand against theyr counterparts of the rival forces around the edge worlds who are less prone to negotiations (nomads or wilde for instance).
By the way, I wont get in the merit of Zoners having gunships, cruisers, carriers or other capships here, i believe this is a lore discussion problem (which was resolved or not?).
In my opinion, it's not becouse a group is more prone to negotiation or trading that it needs to be leveled down in comparison to others in terms of firepower in ships, even becouse Zoners are not in the most friendly of the places, it's the edge worlds, nobody knows what to expect in there, from what i know (well i could be mistaken, i'm new at this) some nomad group could pop up and decide to blow up your freeport or convoy without any real demands, so protection is needed, and not help from others, but help from yourself, theres no 911 call there that would arrive in time, and when a bullied group doens't show any capability to fight back, well evrebody knows what happens, so i think the nerfing of overall zoners ships isn't quite the solution to anything, firepower will always be necessary for the Zoners.
About the way Zoners behave in encounters, thats something i think will always be intrinsic of each one, well, if you are flying your whales carrying food or hull segments or wathever for the freeport alongside with a cruiser and two heavy fighters, and 2 pirates come demanding something, just becouse you are a Zoner, will you comply? I don't think so, theres a big chance you will just tell them to leave while theyr engines still work, right?
And the same goes to maintaining the independence of freeports, Zoners can be proud people too, well, they are free, and to be kept free, they need to defend that freedom, and in space, theres only one way to do it, firepower and influence, you do something against me, it won't be easy, try to rule over my freeport or over me, ill blast you; and if i cant, ill hold you off untill help arrives, and when it do, well you're dust... Zoners have the right to at least try...
Well, thats my opinion.
EDIT: third paragraph was a little ambiguous.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Challenger - 01-20-2014
There's no reason why we can't have passive zoner caps with devastating firepower; give the zoner weapons a substantial (30 - 40%) range buff, incorporate a sizeable hitpoint increase, and then nerf their engines into the ground. If enemies cannot approach and cannot effectively kite them, they will steer clear. If the engines are too slow to make forays far away from home realistic, we won't get these ridiculous situations where two or three aquilons park themselves in Iota.
Basically, make the zoner ships hard to engage but easy to escape from.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Zen_Mechanics - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 02:40 PM)Scumbag Wrote: Please stop it with the real life references Tel Aviv. And stop comparing the zoners with Israel, it's not the same thing. This is why you have been arguing with everyone on this forum, stop taking it personally when someone talks about zoners. I know you can find similarities between them but this is just a game and we are all friends here, even if you might not understand it always.
Im not taking it personaly, and aren't we base faction's rp according to their history and actions, who in term comes from real life experience, or indirect experience? I bring Israel because israel is rather weak compared to the USA, but then Israel needs the firepower to defend itself, even if some arab countries want "mutual agreements" - like egypt, or jordan, because others dont. And its for that very reason, that every faction should have the firepower to defend itself, its a legitimate request of any faction, and as I said, if zoners were not living in places where corsairs do, then I wouldn't mind taking all of its cap ships, but because it is not the case, it has to have.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Quiron - 01-20-2014
Number one wouldn't bring major changes in the player behaviour, if people want to lolwut with their caps, they will do, no matter what are the stats of the ships.
Number two sounds strange, it suggests that Zoners are a pure traders, which is simply stupid - at least I would like to believe in that...
Personally, I like the idea about the SRPed capitals with reduced requirements (this would be good for all factions though).
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - tyro - 01-20-2014
I voted for option 4, but you a priori rejected any opinion which you don't like, so enjoy another zonerzonerzoner thread.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - djordje_petrovic - 01-20-2014
Why should zoners need sone strong warships ? Their main focus would be proffcency in escort and deterance.
Some conversion toward unique transport line would be great. I written mz inital post in haste ill make some short proposition by class and tat will be my finite contribution to the topic.
Corvo - exploratory vessel downgrade heavz cruiser turrets from 2 to one or even remove all. Put ship more agile and slightly more cargo.
Fearless - add more cargo but not too much as it is according to lore q ship derived from tranport framework. so 1200 - 1500 max . Downgrade cannons to GB and keep cruiser heavy hardpoints, or , if swaping cruiser hard points for common cruiser turrets and add some agility like corsair GB. Fearless could be escort frigate and best zoner ship for zoner duties.
Aquilon to be redesigned as light carrier with BS shield but with cruiser turrets and some flak points . Able to counter small and medium targets but ineadequate against other caps. Auxilary, aquilon should retain energy for fleet system jumping.
Colony ship to have 5k cargo , noumerous gatling class weapons slots and maybe some class downgraded shield. Withouth heavz weapons.
Keep in mind that pulse weapons are counted as non heavy weapons. IF you downgrade zoner ship class guns you can still keep up regular energy feed, so even without heavy busters, with noumerous pulses on their caps, and sufficient enrgy to support it zoner can fill role of EMP buggers and support vessels in defensive actions. And they should relly on allies and mercs for hullbuster work if ever such measure needed.
So i suggest that zoners in general have few acess to heavy guns , but can support with energy more pulses than other factions, when it come to fighting.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - RedEclipse - 01-20-2014
You don't get it - Zoners should have capital ships, that's how they were developed in disco. It's no more simple traders and social outcasts, but researchers and explorers, traders. Current amount of Zoner capital ships are absolutely fine, because of boredom to flying them, and it's reflecting their role of being a rare ships.
As Quiron pointed, if people want to lolwut, they will continue. There's nothing wrong with shipline in general or selected Zoner ship, but with open disco policy according to capital ships. It's more evidently with Zoner case because it's not a zoner behaviour to shoot things on sight. So limit these ships(if Jinx can't sleep while nephilims and aquilons are using out of role) to SRP and official factions prevent ALL lolwut usage.
Doing some weird stuff on zoner cap?
SRP - admins taking away
Official factions - taking consequences, because official faction member should be aware of good manners while using especially bigger ship.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Daedric - 01-20-2014
Or perhaps let the people that play the Zoners offer up some suggestions? Since, you know, any change to the entire Zoner NPC faction affects them.
Perhaps taking a gander at all of the threads created by the members and leaders of the multitude of Zoner factions over the years?
Funny thing is, if it wasn't for you, Jinx, the Zoners likely wouldn't be needing any fix. You're the one who always claimed they needed capital ships and produced new versions every six months. Had you never been a Dev then the Zoners would have developed in a very different direction.
Oh and btw, this is constructive criticism, but as I said before. This admin and dev team (like many before) don't take constructive criticism (or any criticism). So meh. Have fun, Disco won't be around to much longer.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - MÃmir - 01-20-2014
Well Israel is terrible to use as an example as it has at its core a certain religious zeal (like some of their adversaries do as well) that effectively rule out co-existence, hence violence is the only outcome and only measure of leverage. But to call that diplomacy is a joke. There's a reason why the international community has tried to stepped in countless times to mediate a diplomatic solution.
And to those that say "but other factions have caps too" either make a separate thread about that, or think about it for a little while - what other factions have no distinct leadership, more or less totally neutral reputation and so so many caps? It doesn't add up, but I'm afraid no matter how many times it is carefully edged out over pages and pages of discussions, it just wont sink in for some, no matter what. So what do? Leave as is, despite how broken it is in the eyes of a large portion of players here?