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+--- Thread: Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? (/showthread.php?tid=11334)
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - Tenacity - 08-16-2008
Quote:so you might rather wanne compare it to omicron-delta and the zoners. - and there, you see that the zoners only "govern" 5k around their station - and the rest is not their business.
you're right, this is more accurate. The Junkers in O15 only 'claim' the small southern portion of the system, primarily the scrap field around bornholme. As long as nobody causes trouble there, we dont have a reason to bother anyone else in the system - but we will enforce neutrality around bornholme and destroy anyone who breaches that nuetrality. In essence, it's all about the security of the station and the junkers collecting salvage there - hostile vessels coming in and starting a firefight pose a severe threat to the station itself, and that cannot be tolerated. It's no different than zoners enforcing the same nuetrality law in a small area around each of their stations.
Quote:Seems every 2nd junker my LPI meets is either attacking me, or badmouthing the lawfuls.
Any junker attacking a lawful in open sight is just asking to get killed or imprisoned. A real junker knows that criminal business is always best conducted in dark places - if I'm going to try and kill a cop or naval pilot, I'll get them to follow me into the badlands, or into the dark matter cloud of the pittsburgh debris field - both are areas where, in-RP, communications and sensors dont function properly. In that environment, I can kill any lawful and get away 'scott-free' - because nobody would know I was the one who did the killing.
As for "badmouthing lawfuls" - this is ok within limitations. Free speech is still (from what I can tell) allowed within liberty. Now, if you're directly harassing players and not in-character, then it's a breach of server rules and you get sanctioned. However, if you're in-character and just ranting about how liberty is corrupt and falling apart, there's really nothing the lawfuls can do about it unless, as in the above example, they take you in "quietly" and deal with you behind-the-scenes. Attacking a ranting lunatic in public is bad relations, and will put a lot of heat on liberty officials from the press and such.
Quote:Not to mention all the smuggling they always get caught doing...( they speed dock..)
Really now, this is just bad practice. Whenever I smuggled cardamine, i took it directly to rochester or beaumont. I only went to manhattan the first couple of times I ran the stuff, and learned very quickly that it was bad Rp to do so.
Even then, the first time I ran cardi to manhattan, I put up an elaborate distraction in system chat - faking a distress call coming from the debris field around pittsburgh, which drew off the navy and police sitting at manhattan and gave me an opening to dock.
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - worldstrider - 08-16-2008
I can't speak for all Junkers who chose to interact with Harvesters but I can speak for Congress members.
Harvesters consider us "not-hostile" by default--by "us" I mean all Junkers. As long as a Junker doesn't attack or threaten a Harvester, they will not get attacked. This is because of the logic presented to their "first unit" by Vladimir Tinkerbell.
The Harvesters also INSIST on the freedom to salvage debris fields near Junker bases--it wasn't a request. The Junkers can work with this or be worked over because of it. Obviously Junkers would prefer to not have to war with Harvesters at their own bases. As part of the Harvesters logical view of the situation, they are willing to provide protection to Junkers at Junker bases and to receive "threat identifications" from Junkers in return for "efficient" (no conflict with local Junkers) access to Junker salvage areas. That means if a Junker is attacked and notifies a Harvester, the unit that performed the attack will be noted by the Harvesters as "hostile". The Harvesters will flag such attackers as hostile even if no notification is given by a Junker if they are aware of the attack. It is an element of their programming. They do not distinguish an attack on a Junker as other than an attack on themselves. Harvester programming has determined that "Junkers are of benefit to its goals"--we did not decide that for them--they determined it. Now what Junkers do NOT do is respond in like manner to Harvesters. Their agendas are their own and we do not determine them--we can't. Harvesters do what they want. So do not confuse Harvesters defending Junkers at Junker bases as a "war pact"--it is a function they preform because their processing has determined that it is in their best interest. What we do prohibit is ANY faction bringing their wars and battles to Junker population centers. We can't risk stations full of traders,families, and children to be pummeled by cap ships slugging it out. So there is a 2k exclusion zone for combat near Junker bases and an expanded exclusion zone at Bornholm that covers the debris field around it as it is strictly defined and heavily populated with salvagers. You will not see Junkers "data siphoning" prisoners, destroying Zoners in search of alpha codes or attacking Harvester specific enemies such as bounty hunters. Those are Harvester matters and beyond our control. An Outcast and a Corsair can dock a Junker base and such docking does not make us be fully allied to them.
We have an arrangement with the Harvesters that was imposed on us and managed to convince the Harvesters that if they were going to compete with Junkers for base resources it was better to provide a service instead of being in conflict with us. Don't attack Junkers and Harvesters will have nothing to do with you because of Junkers. Blaming us for the Harvester presence is akin to demanding WE go to war with them. We can't. We cannot battle Harvesters at the handful of stations we call home. We can't battle bounty hunters either. That is why we demand that such battles not be brought to our bases.
Our recommendation to all groups is that if they don't assault the Harvesters the Harvesters might see the logic in not assaulting you. It is egotistical, headstrong and militaristic minded pilots that are provoking conflict. if you declare war on them, don't blame Junkers.
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - worldstrider - 08-16-2008
' Wrote:It's been said before: If a Junker does something stupid, the actions shine on that Junker alone. If a Junker gets caught red-handed, we deny all relation to him. We're tight-knit but not so apt to sacrifice our neutrality.
In other words, if a Junker crosses the line, go ahead and drop him without worry of factional reprecussions. The old excuse "Never saw that guy before" applies here. We don't suffer idiots who threaten our fine balance through greed and misplaced pride.
Too many are treating the Junker tag like a Zoner tag for unlawfuls. Our immunity is a common misconception and I welcome any who choose to shatter it when it's needed. We need to thin the herd some -- unsubtle loudmouths and blatant smugglers are killing our PR.
...as for the Harvesters, again: Ask me in-game. "I don't know that guy."
Exactly right. Junkers that fire on authorities (real authorities such as house police and navy) "get what their stupidity earned them". Prosecute them to the full extent of the law. No responsible Junker is going to complain. "Yer place yer bets, ya take yer chances."
As to Harvesters, many Junkers chose to have nothing to do with them. Fortunately the arrangement we managed to salvage from their initial threat allow Junkers to be able to do this. We also are on occasion able to request Harvesters not treat someone as a hostile automatically and they will sometimes acquiesce, But if they see actions as hostile, they will then disregard those requests. That is the extent of our influence.