+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+--- Thread: Who is in charge of balancing caps? (/showthread.php?tid=115543)
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - SnakThree - 05-19-2014
Meh. A lone snubcraft cannot kill capital ship.
The point of interception is that it will invite others to join the fight. Meaning more players will log. Meaning capital ship has to call for back up too. I don't understand why are you angry with activity-magnet.
You are imposibble.
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - EisenSeele - 05-19-2014
(05-19-2014, 10:57 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Meh. A lone snubcraft cannot kill capital ship.
The point of interception is that it will invite others to join the fight. Meaning more players will log. Meaning capital ship has to call for back up too. I don't understand why are you angry with activity-magnet.
You are imposibble.
Actually, that's not how it works. How it works is, people start to notice how flying in a cap is becoming a losing proposition, and an exercise in masochism.
There are very few if any cap pilots that would actually WANT to fight a snub - they want to fight other caps in fair, balanced fights as was intended. Instead, they get bogged down in fights that they don't want - and then they'll give up logging caps altogether (hint, this is something we're seeing already).
In the end, you'll only see the snubwhores logging to fight other snubwhores, with nobody (that actually knows better) logging caps.
While there's nothing wrong with people wanting snubs to fight snubs, there's a better way to do that without alienating the players that enjoy flying caps.
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - SnakThree - 05-19-2014
Then why are all those caps that you are talking about engaging snubcrafts on their own?
Case closed. They do not care who they shoot. And they rarely run. And if they are in range, no proper pilot will let it go out of CD range.
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - EisenSeele - 05-19-2014
(05-19-2014, 11:07 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Then why are all those caps that you are talking about engaging snubcrafts on their own?
Case closed. They do not care who they shoot. And they rarely run. And if they are in range, no proper pilot will let it go out of CD range.
Wait, is your argument seriously "because lolwuts are lolwuts," and you expect this to be a valid argument?
That won't fly.
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - SnakThree - 05-19-2014
(05-19-2014, 11:14 AM)EisenSeele Wrote:Your argument is invalid too, because, snub speed increase is here for less than 24hours. And you are already providing arguments for the future and how it will impact their usage. No. It won't. People will always use capital ships.(05-19-2014, 11:07 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Then why are all those caps that you are talking about engaging snubcrafts on their own?
Case closed. They do not care who they shoot. And they rarely run. And if they are in range, no proper pilot will let it go out of CD range.
Wait, is your argument seriously "because lolwuts are lolwuts," and you expect this to be a valid argument?
That won't fly.
And Call for backup if you are intercepted, because that is what everyone should do. It's cooperation in MULTIPLAYER game. Your argument that "argument about backup is invalid" is invalid too. Because single bomber cannot kill single capital ship. While single capital ship can kill single bomber. Fighters are not even in this picture, because their Damage over time has been lowered now with the codename nerf.
Wait a few weeks before raising issues, because how many capital ships were intercepted since Cruise Speed Buff?
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - EisenSeele - 05-19-2014
(05-19-2014, 11:20 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Your argument is invalid too, because, snub speed increase is here for less than 24hours. And you are already providing arguments for the future and how it will impact their usage. No. It won't. People will always use capital ships.
And Call for backup if you are intercepted, because that is what everyone should do. It's cooperation in MULTIPLAYER game. You argument that argument about backup is invalid. Because single bomber cannot kill single capital ship. While single capital ship can kill single bomber. Fighters are not even in this picture, because their Damage over time has been lowered now with the codename nerf.
Wait a few weeks before raising issues, because how many capital ships were intercepted since Cruise Speed Buff?
Actually, my big issue is that it's been more than two major mod updates, and there's been little if any non-cosmetic changes that have been added to caps.
Solaris turrets were a nice change, but that was quite quickly reverted and not a second thought to salvaging the idea.
Zappers are useless, unless you want a disco party.
Everything else was a small tweak here and there, with nothing close to a fraction of the time gone into snubs.
Hell, there's always been concerns about how heavier gunboats can't take out lighter gunboats without weapons like the pre-nerf Solaris - since the nerfed speed gunboat prims can barely hit anything that isn't kiting it that isn't the size of a cruiser - but there's been little if any change to address that.
There's been little if any input into considering other cap vs cap balance either, since lone gunboats can solo lone cruisers can solo lone battleships.
Can you honestly say that caps haven't been left behind, or that there's been a trend of snubs getting buffs without corresponding balancing buffs to caps?
Also, no. No cap can kill any snub of any kind of any loadout without the snub WANTING to be killed (assuming that it has half a functioning brainstem). I can take a shieldless, thrusterless starflea, and fly circles around any battleship all day, but the same starflea can keep it CD'd for much longer than it takes for its reinforcements arrive. The battleship can't do the same.
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - Zayne Carrick - 05-19-2014
Quote:without the snub WANTING to be killedwithout the snub WANTING to kill cap
fixed that for you
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - titanbot - 05-19-2014
It's a game, having smaller ships acting as interceptors is alright. The only issue I see here is not the survivability of the said capship, but rather how effective it is.
I've read somewhere on the first page that someone said gunboats are eating cruisers alive. Well, the purpose of the gunboat is to act as anti strike craft vessel (specialized capital ship against fighters and bombers), not as an oversized bomber. The cruiser is squishy enough, and that's good, it should be an all-rounder, decent (current) mobility and firepower. Keep battleships for base sieges, better weaponized defence and possibly worse than current mobility (turn rates and such).
I have an idea for all that, what gunboats need is weapon speed and range to be enough to scare a bomber off, but weak enough not to cut through a battleship or cruiser like an oversized bomber. Increasing the unwanted "prey" (cruiser) shield regeneration rate while increasing the SNAC damage sounds alright to me.
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - Scumbag - 05-19-2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat
Quote:A gunboat is a naval watercraft designed for the express purpose of carrying one or more guns to bombard coastal targets, as opposed to those military craft designed for naval warfare, or for ferrying troops or supplies.
In the age of sail, a gunboat was usually a small undecked vessel carrying a single smoothbore cannon in the bow, or just two or three such cannons. A gunboat could carry one or two masts or be oar-powered only, but the single-masted version of about 15 m (49 ft) length was most typical. Some types of gunboat carried two cannons, or else mounted a number of swivel guns on the railings.
The advantages of this type of gunboat were that since it only carried a single cannon, that cannon could be quite heavy—for instance, a 32-pounder—and that the boat could be maneuvered in shallow or restricted waters, where sailing was difficult for larger ships. A single hit from a frigate would demolish a gunboat, but a frigate facing six gunboats in an estuary would likely be seriously damaged before it could manage to sink all of them. Gunboats were also easy and quick to build; the combatants in the 1776 Battle of Valcour Island on Lake Champlain in New York were mostly gunboats built on the spot.
Also read about dreadnaughts, cruisers, battlecruisers. Freelancer capships emulate 18th and 19th century naval craft.
Discovery of course has bombers, a 20th century invention.
RE: Who is in charge of balancing caps? - Unlucky_Soul - 05-19-2014
(05-19-2014, 11:28 AM)EisenSeele Wrote: Actually, my big issue is that it's been more than two major mod updates, and there's been little if any non-cosmetic changes that have been added to caps.
I kinda agree with this sentence.
I would like to propose a different approach to capital ships. Give them specialized weaponry that varies from faction to faction (in this case I believe in reality it would be house capitals that should have access to them,but for the sake of balance all factions should have access)
For example let houses follow a doctrine that may be similar or different from each other. Their specialized weapons would reflect this. The weapons would occupy slots like cloaks, docking modules,hyperspace scanners and jumpdrives
For Example Bretonia,since they are on the losing end vs Gallia should adopt a doctrine that focus on thitting the enemy ships hard and then retreat quick without taking losses(since a loss of a capital ship would be disastrous to their fleet) . So their specialized weapon would be an engine booster that increases impulse speed to say 110 and it constantly drains energy. Would use fuel like cloaks and jump drives. Another example Kusari capital ship would have a specialized weapon like a once shot missile pod that fires multiple rockets(non tracking) that does high damage. Rheinland a power generator , a specialized item that increases power regeneration .Just a few ideas.
The official factions would decide on the doctrine they would like to follow, based on their RP lore. Accordingly specialized weapons would be based on that.
I don't know if this can be implemented but sure would be nice if it could.
This is in aspect for caps vs caps battles. Vs snubs its a different story because it is quite hard to find a balance in this case.