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+--- Thread: The Truth about Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=115854)
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Ayatolah - 05-26-2014
(05-26-2014, 06:40 PM)Snak3 Wrote:(05-26-2014, 06:20 PM)lIceColon Wrote: Basically an emphasis on neutrality.
Freelancers can be extremely affiliated with a certain faction, and freelancers can also be opposing, therefore a freelancer can shoot another freelancer.
Zoners on the other hand try to maintain neutral relations with everybody.
So a neutral freelancer in a nutshell. With bigger and better ships.
Add 5kers an "Halo of Saint Neutrality"
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Major_Mayhem - 05-26-2014
(05-26-2014, 06:17 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: The problem with the unified Zoner idea, is that Zoners are their own worst enemy. Except for the shipline redo proposal, they have difficulties coming to an accord on anything. And, even with the shipline, there was dissension to an extreme degree. I'm afraid that a unified conference of Zoners is a fantasy dream unless they can learn to work together.
Actually that is, in both RP and OORP, not strictly true. Phoenix, TAZ and OSI, as well as COF (Confederation of Freeports) and independent Freeport Admins are working quite well together.
Granted, we have our differences, but that is rather the charm than the downfall of the Zoner Faction.
If you want to be a peacefull monk defending his homeworld and sharing your believes in Eris with people troughout the galaxy: TAZ
If you want to explore the unknown parts of said galaxy: Phoenix
If you want to trade in the known parts of the galaxy: OSI
There is actually an OORP-thing that gouverns the Zoner Faction, wich happens to be the COF channel. In there we agree on most things brought up to debate, actually. Simple things like FR5ing individuals or fighting for a common cause, such as keeping our capital ships.
(I do realize we were asked to deliver a believable backgroundstory on how the Zoners came to build Capital ships. This is, in my eyes, impossible. But as Acolyte already explained, this is true for many other factions having capital ships)
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Sabru - 05-27-2014
(05-26-2014, 02:12 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: Sabre, humor is to laugh together, and in most cases objectively, not subjectively, or should it be the other way around?
You can have a strong objection to zoners all you like, infact you already are -
Says i have a strong subjective objection to zoners.
Forgets im in TAZ.
Tel Logic
![[Image: 4xvNJ.png]](http://i.imgur.com/4xvNJ.png)
(05-26-2014, 08:04 PM)Major_Mayhem Wrote:(05-26-2014, 06:17 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: The problem with the unified Zoner idea, is that Zoners are their own worst enemy. Except for the shipline redo proposal, they have difficulties coming to an accord on anything. And, even with the shipline, there was dissension to an extreme degree. I'm afraid that a unified conference of Zoners is a fantasy dream unless they can learn to work together.
Actually that is, in both RP and OORP, not strictly true. Phoenix, TAZ and OSI, as well as COF (Confederation of Freeports) and independent Freeport Admins are working quite well together.
Granted, we have our differences, but that is rather the charm than the downfall of the Zoner Faction.
If you want to be a peacefull monk defending his homeworld and sharing your believes in Eris with people troughout the galaxy: TAZ
If you want to explore the unknown parts of said galaxy: Phoenix
If you want to trade in the known parts of the galaxy: OSI
There is actually an OORP-thing that gouverns the Zoner Faction, wich happens to be the COF channel. In there we agree on most things brought up to debate, actually. Simple things like FR5ing individuals or fighting for a common cause, such as keeping our capital ships.
MM is correct here. while a full inRP Council of zoners is a pipe dream, the CoF skype channel serves quite well as a quasi-council for dealing with zoner matters.
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Thyrzul - 05-27-2014
(05-26-2014, 05:53 PM)Acolyte Wrote: As a member of TAZ, I would expect you to remember everything that Mal stood for; especially given that he was the one that founded the Council of Zoners and was a founding member of the ZA.
Before we go all personal, let me clarify a few things. I missed the fortune to have much contact with Mal before he passed away, I became interested in Zoners and joined TAZ much much later. I'm sorry that I did not ask for history lessons in the TAZ chat, but regardless I have my concept of a Zoner which I intended to roleplay during my stay in Baffin.
A unified Zoner entity is practically impossible. A unified body would require unified dimplomacy as well, but the different zoner groups are so scattered around and so distant geographically, that due to different neighbours they developed entirely different relations. None of them in themselves are strong enough to survive without being on good terms with their surroundings. Now let's say we unite Zoners, who will this new entity favor, Corsairs or Outcasts? Can't favor both, if you are buddies with one, you are hunted by the other. Choosing Outcasts would be a death sentence to FP9 and Corfu, choosing Corsairs would result in the removal of FP10. What do you do now? Help out both secretly? How long could you hide what happens behind the scenes?
There can be cooperation between the groups, which I believe is currently represented by the CoF, but outright unification is not possible.
Also, regarding history lessons, I recall something along the lines of earlier attempts of Zoner unification failing pretty much because of what Garrett said, that Zoners are so diverse their goals are as well, and coming to an accord is highly problematic, if not outright impossible.
A unified Zoner entity is practically impossible. A unified body would require unified dimplomacy as well, but the different zoner groups are so scattered around and so distant geographically, that due to different neighbours they developed entirely different relations. None of them in themselves are strong enough to survive without being on good terms with their surroundings. Now let's say we unite Zoners, who will this new entity favor, Corsairs or Outcasts? Can't favor both, if you are buddies with one, you are hunted by the other. Choosing Outcasts would be a death sentence to FP9 and Corfu, choosing Corsairs would result in the removal of FP10. What do you do now? Help out both secretly? How long could you hide what happens behind the scenes?
There can be cooperation between the groups, which I believe is currently represented by the CoF, but outright unification is not possible.
Also, regarding history lessons, I recall something along the lines of earlier attempts of Zoner unification failing pretty much because of what Garrett said, that Zoners are so diverse their goals are as well, and coming to an accord is highly problematic, if not outright impossible.
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-27-2014
Yes yes, dreams are made of teas - evolution drives humanity and bonds them together, because evolution finds a way. Look at the euro union, they are comprised by nations that loath each other for centuries and now they are working together ( in theory, im not a fan of their dhimmi government ) - and people no longer feel the need to walk around killing people for being dennish. So, whos going to unite the zoners if not the "official factions" ( which is a joke really, because they sure as hell dont care about the zoners in general ) - We? And why is it that when someone is willing to do something that only then these factions find the will to jumpin and take the credit. i strongly suggest then to either disband or use a freelancer ID, because they are not contributing anything to the well-being of the generic faction.
These so called factions were quick to whine and complain and bellyake when we almost had our toys removed, because its convinient for them to not get involved until something happends, and naturaly - pointing fingers at everyone else. I would not trust them to hold a biscuit contest. So once these factions go away, People such as trog can easily jump-in and actually do something without being told :NO! WE OWN IT!:
Being a zoner is boring when you follow the teachings of OSI, who by my read are not even zoners by all accounts and they might as well turn themselves to Kishiro and do something to improve the activity atleast in some part. That might sound outlandish and out there and major is probably gonna think im a nutball for suggesting it, but trading day and night is not what people had in mind, and I expect you to get up on it and do something intresting for a change.
Go to war with The Order, conjure up something - bloody move- do something bald or relinquish your precious status and let others fill in.
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Sabru - 05-27-2014
(05-27-2014, 11:22 AM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: Yes yes, dreams are made of teas - evolution drives humanity and bonds them together, because evolution finds a way. Look at the euro union, they are comprised by nations that loath each other for centuries and now they are working together ( in theory, im not a fan of their dhimmi government ) - and people no longer feel the need to walk around killing people for being dennish. So, whos going to unite the zoners if not the "official factions" ( which is a joke really, because they sure as hell dont care about the zoners in general ) - We? And why is it that when someone is willing to do something that only then these factions find the will to jumpin and take the credit. i strongly suggest then to either disband or use a freelancer ID, because they are not contributing anything to the well-being of the generic faction.
These so called factions were quick to whine and complain and bellyake when we almost had our toys removed, because its convinient for them to not get involved until something happends, and naturaly - pointing fingers at everyone else. I would not trust them to hold a biscuit contest. So once these factions go away, People such as trog can easily jump-in and actually do something without being told :NO! WE OWN IT!:
Being a zoner is boring when you follow the teachings of OSI, who by my read are not even zoners by all accounts and they might as well turn themselves to Kishiro and do something to improve the activity atleast in some part. That might sound outlandish and out there and major is probably gonna think im a nutball for suggesting it, but trading day and night is not what people had in mind, and I expect you to get up on it and do something intresting for a change.
Go to war with The Order, conjure up something - bloody move- do something bald or relinquish your precious status and let others fill in.
you do know there is nothing stopping you from trying to get officialdom as a zoner faction.... except for your cluelessness as demonstrated clearly in your post. Feel free to make your own moves, but dont expect the officials to back everything you do 'cause zoner'. We have our own interests and we look after them. Even if there was a council, i doubt you or the rest of the wut brigade would take heed unless it spouted your delusional ideas about zoners and what they should do (i.e krieging)
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-27-2014
I got news for you mr pope, I don't care if you have cup final tickets, you dont represent anything but yourself and you have already exposed your deeply unpleasent approach to zoners. Status or not, you dont deserve anything but complete ridicule for destroying other people's fun or by making a mockery ouf ot their gameplay. Done talking to you, Like trog has said, you dont belong.
RE: The Truth about Zoners - SnakThree - 05-27-2014
Zen is not wrong about OSI, they are a corporation, not Zoners.
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Gytrash - 05-27-2014
Okay, want my opinion about the problem with Zoners?
We can't get anything done. I mean, we can do all the legwort, we had a bunch of lore proposals for the capship line and everyone kept dismissing it as "unrealistic" we even managed to get the majority of people (official factions) agreeing on the lore as it stood to make it moderately reasonable.
And then the Devmin team said "No, you can not haz it like that."
So we changed it up
"No, go change it again"
So we asked for helpful hints
"Lul, Iunno."
So then we kind of gave up. I mean, the amount of justification that was required for the CONTINUING EXISTANCE of a set of ships that had been in the game for years was far and away beyond any justification that has been pus in place for any random faction that has battleships.
Why do the Corsairs and Outcasts have a ton of battleships?
Because.
The Zoner infocard description reads that the Zoners WERE a disparate group of people that grew to be a rich and influential faction, and the Zoners of Omicron Theta feel that they are powerful enough to defend against the Corsairs and the Outcasts both and apparently are successfully doing so.
How does this translate to weak faction?
Me and Jeni manufactured the Confederation of Freeports and it's grown to be some friends who I could beg to join to pretty much encompassing every single Zoner base not owned by one of the factions (Phoenix, OSI, TAZ)...
Except maybe Bethlehem, I can't find anyone who will admit to running that so I can't ask them to join.
Still, to say "Oh Zoners never get along and can't agree on anything and therefore should be super weak" is to completely ignore the fact that there is roleplay to the contrary.
However, there is no one responsible for the NPC faction Zoners, and the reason for that is because there is no way of regulating them BECAUSe of the people who argue that zoners are all super disparate,
"Why can't I have a Liberty hating Nephilim captain? I'm an individual and that's what zoners are all about!"
Good for you. Just don't expect anyone from the official factions to help you when you get into the poo from the LN.
Or something like that. That's just a my opinion post anyway. I'll probably read this later when I'm more coherent and think "My God what did I say?" but that happens a lot.
Edit: Also there is no reason why there can't be a Zoner corporation. And if you feel that there is then feel free to provide me with the reasons why not.
RE: The Truth about Zoners - Sabru - 05-27-2014
(05-27-2014, 11:39 AM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: *insert stock standard tel QQ about how everybody else ruins his fun because they wont follow his lolwut ideas*Thank eris that's not your decision to make, otherwise you would permaban anyone who doesnt agree with you.
Like trog has said, you dont belong.
if anything, judging by the level of disdain for you in the disco community, you dont belong.
but anywho, watching you RAEG, QQ and attempt to insult me has given me a good laugh (along with a lot of other people). So please, do continue to rant, rave and throw tantrums like a petulant toddler who doesnt get his way. It provides great amusement for the community.
DISCLAIMER: this post is personal opinion. any relation to people, real or ficitonal is entirely coincidental and any damages are entirely unintended.