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+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports (/showthread.php?tid=12449)
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Akumabito - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:Open accusations would lead to trial by forum.
For instance, this may hit close to home: Many people on the forum have suggested that certain members which they find annoying should be banned. The administrators haven't seen this as necessary (yet). If such trials by forum were allowed, certain individuals may be banned now.
That makes no sense. First off it wouldn't be trial by forum because the trial thread can be moderated so that no one can post but those involved. Right now we get trial by forum anyway when the admins feel like letting it happen, like in my sanction thread for instance.
Secondly in the end it's all made public anyway, except what isn't convenient to the admins to show, and no one is calling for bans except a few people who want me banned.
Open trial insure that sanctions are free of bias, that screenies are not faked or misrepresented, etc... all of which can and does happen now.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - looqas - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:Its part of the punishment...how about you just dont get the sanction in the first place?
That's solid advice, but sometimes you are just in the wrong place at a wrong time. People love to jump to conclusions too quickly.
But common decency should say that you are not guilty until proven so (and before anyone can bounce on this I have faith in admins doing the ruling right). We only need to look at the tabloid papers how they crucify people by taking stuff out of context. If an open and totally transparent violation report process would be implemented the whole forum would degenerate to a massive Akuma-land where everybody keeps touting their innocence (whatever true or not) for months with things going for a popularity vote. Can you imagine the size of a petition threads.
I support the idea Bacon. I've noticed the same and been posting rule violations taking this into account.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Srkad - 09-25-2008
Not to argue, but if your following the rules being "in the wrong place at the wrong time" should be null and void.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Akumabito - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:If an open and totally transparent violation report process would be implemented the whole forum would degenerate to a massive Akuma-land where everybody keeps touting their innocence (whatever true or not) for months with things going for a popularity vote.
Actually you have that backwards, in an open trial there would be nothing hidden. What makes sanctions suspect is when the admins don't show guilt publicly, but instead claim to have secret evidence they won't or can't produce and make claims not supported by the evidence they do show that leads to akuma land, especially when they take three months to do an appeal and the appeal ends up being "you deserve it because of the way you post on the forum".
Openness fixes that.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - looqas - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:Not to argue, but if your following the rules being "in the wrong place at the wrong time" should be null and void.
I know. The scenario I had in mind was more in a vain. Jumped through a hole, there's a piracy in process, somethings are not right. The pirate gets reported, you happen be of the same faction and screenshots clearly shows you being there in a Cruiser-> fined.
It's unfortunate that these incident happen and you get fined for it, but imagine if the violation reports were available to all. It would make those cases also public where the sanction would not be gotten.
And of for the record. I've never been sanctioned since I rather don't like to walk the line and stretch the rules a bit and I'm trying to stay out of anything fishy. Oh, I don't own any caps.
That example is just what came to my mind right now. The other would be those transitions, where you really are going to get that ID or ship.
The main point the Bacon is trying to raise here that let's not give anyone more gasoline than necessary. We've got enough of quarrel and bickering as it is already.
EDIT: Fixed some horrible sentences...
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Akumabito - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:I know. The scenario I had in mind was more in a vain. Jumped through a hole, there's a piracy in process, somethings are not right. The pirate gets reported, you happen be of the same faction and screenshots clearly shows you being there in a Cruiser-> fined.
That's where an open trial would help, currently you can't even tell the admins you just happened to be there by happenstance until after you are sanctioned. In an open trial you could. Moreso if someone had seen you weren't with the pirates they could add evidence, likewise if someone else had been pirated and saw you both there they could likewise say so and the truth would be out. That can't happen now.
Open and honest is always better than hidden.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - chovynz - 09-25-2008
Baconsoda: I think the admins do a fine job in determining who gets a sanction and who doesn't.
I think hiding their name will spare them unnecessary grief from this community.
Also, having their name hidden means they dont get that "stigma" of being a "rulebreaker" either - justified or not.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - bluntpencil2001 - 09-25-2008
Also:
I don't want to have to defend myself in an open trial every time some idiot accuses me of rule-breaking when I'm Privateering. I've better things to do. I'd rather let the admins just deal with it more quickly.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - Akumabito - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:Baconsoda: I think the admins do a fine job in determining who gets a sanction and who doesn't. I think hiding their name will spare them unecessary grief from this community.
Well, can you point to one time where someone got grief from their name being seen in the report title?
And while you think the admins do a fine job, you really don't know if they do. Undeserved sanctions do happen, deserved ones are not given. Open trials lets you know which admins really are doing a good job.
There's a good reason that trials are public today, unlike in the dark ages when small groups of judges decided guilt or innocence secretly, then killed the innocent.
Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports - bluntpencil2001 - 09-25-2008
' Wrote:Well, can you point to one time where someone got grief from their name being seen in the report title?
And while you think the admins do a fine job, you really don't know if they do. Undeserved sanctions do happen, deserved ones are not given. Open trials lets you know which admins really are doing a good job.
There's a good reason that trials are public today, unlike in the dark ages when small groups of judges decided guilt or innocence secretly, then killed the innocent.
The admins aren't using capital punishment for people breaking rules ina computer game.
The analogy isn't so great. This isn't the OJ Simpson Trial. It's not a murder trial. Quit treating it like someone has been killed or worse.