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+------ Thread: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag (/showthread.php?tid=130047)
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Sturmwind - 05-31-2015
Thank you for the advice, Garrett. While you're right, the point of helpful counselors is well.... to be helpful.
When you have to answer a simple yes or no question that has no relevance whatsoever (such as an entry permit), and people insist that you wait for the decision of 7 other people, while most of them aren't even active, that is not helpful counseling. The point of counseling is to help with making decisions that you yourself cannot do so alone, not to prevent you when you can.
This new system only serves to speed up decision making and put the respective people in their respective fields of competence. If there is a defense issue, who other than the person running a defense faction could deal with it best? If there is a law issue, who else than the person running a law enforcement faction could deal with it? If there is an economic relationship issue, who else but a corporation should deal with it in the most efficient way? This would basically serve to make everyone be responsible for a certain field they're best at. Then again, you always have the chance to ask for the help of someone else, but this way, you're not forced to do so.
Macropolitical decisions would still be made in unity, but pretending that minor issues like an entry permit, a gun registry or a disciplinary action of one soldier require the attention of the whole government just to make 13 people 'happy' renders our efficiency to well... Bundestag level.
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - FallenKnight - 06-01-2015
(05-31-2015, 10:48 AM)Kanzler Schulte Wrote: -For the increase of efficiency and speed of processes involved. This means that from this point forward, certain topics will be handled by the specific representative of that field.
-Each "branch" are to come up with a Minister for their Work. Minister of Defense, Minister of Justice, Minister of Intelligence, Minister of Economy.
In Bretonia War Cabinet, we've been using this system since 3 years and the results are on the line. Each one of us is responsible to track anything related to "WC", forward it in the chat so we can start discussing and voting how to respond. Then we choose someone - usually a "minister" or a faction leader close to this case to respond and he does that in approximately day or two (sometimes instantly).
If you plan to work similar to our way then you will notice how easy it's going to be for all of you to respond in RP for everyone of the gov will be responsible to its own affairs. In our WC the ministers are currently 2 (holding position from a player chars) - marcus as prime minister and my char as minister of defense, while the trading one is held as "npc" char and anyone can answer from it if needed. I don't know how you plan to implement the ministers in your gov but for us the plan was to place old veteran players that are not leaders to any faction but were faction leaders once - so their opinion to be of weight and reasonable. In this way their vote and opinion wont be equal to the representative faction (example: BAF leader may say one thing, MOD may say another but both to be reasonable which may lead to changes of the respond and better development of the RP).
For example the minister of trade should work in oorp with the trading factions of rheinland and bother with their problems, make events, open trade routes and etc. The minister of defense to work out events with RFP and RM and speak with other factions like RHA for improvement of the gampeplay and do pvp events or respond to official military/security messages forwarded to Rheinland as a House - not to let an admiral to answer to the Queen as a rough example.
In this way the players of each faction will focus on their problems while these ministers (gov ppl and leaders) will work out on next level to fix other issues concerning the House and the factions involved.
Again - for us in Bretonia this is working fine so far - I hope it does work fine for you as well.
(05-31-2015, 07:14 PM)Sturmwind Wrote: a disciplinary action of one soldier require the attention of the whole government just to make 13 people 'happy' renders our efficiency to well... Bundestag level.It should not involve 13 people (if these are your Rh.Gov representatives). For a disciplinary action of one soldier, the needed characters to vote on a punishment to be done or not are: minister of defense, fleet admiral of rheinland military and as 3rd party considering the laws - RFP chief director. These 3 would be enough to handle military affairs which have nothing to do with DHC or BDM or even the kanzler himself.
In short the MOD should be the only official representative needed from your gov to ask the FA of RM to do something like that and get a support from RFP. Nice and easy way to solve such things. Then the Rh.Gov wont need month to respond to something, by waiting 13 ppl to come online and vote - but will handle such cases far more faster and accurate less than day or two (considering the activity of the players).
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Laura C. - 06-01-2015
Okay, just to correct this misunderstanding: nothing in Bundestag needed attention of 13 people. Ever.
There are seven factions, each has one vote. There is more people in chat because some factions brought their 2iC to be more flexible and also Kanzler is there.
But total is seven votes. So once you get four, you have majority and thing is approved (unless there is kanzler veto dropped, then you need five votes).
So if there is something easy to decide and people share same opinion, you need just four people. If something is more complicated, then you need more, up to seven until one side has majority. But that´s all.
And by the way, the complaint about Harkonnen stayed unsolved so long because nobody (including RM) had time/willingness/unbiased position to jump on it. It wasn´t about any waiting for voting, because general guideline how to treat it was set up quite quickly. What Bundestag miss the most is some kind of "secretary" which will post what is agreed there.
Generally, I´m personally not against change of the system to speed it up just for the sake of being against the change. However it must be discussed and agreed by majority (if not all), not made overnight by three people and then posted while majority of Bundestag members are not even present and when there are potentially problematic issues which should be cleared before the new system is implemented, not after when conflicts appear.
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Sturmwind - 06-01-2015
Yes, you made a point like that already yesterday:
[2015.05.31. 19:00:47 | Edited 19:00:57] translucent-rabbit: My and Karst point is - THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE, NOT AFTER THE CHANGE IS MADE.
Two things:
1) I still don't know why we're discussing this here. Especially since we had the same talk on Skype yesterday.
2) I don't understand why we're discussing who was or was not involved in the decision making instead of discussing the key factors and process of implementation when it looks like no one is against the decision itself. It would be much more productive.
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - FallenKnight - 06-01-2015
@Laura C. I just wanted to give you hints of how this system you plan to use is working on our side. The way you explain it - it looks like you are voting on absolutely everything which is indeed slowing down the progress. Point is some things don't need voting (for us) but only few leaders and representatives to be on same opinion - and they can handle things without bothering the entire cabinet. I don't mean to say to you to do like us - just stating its far more simple if the cabinet is separated in "ministers" or people for everything - responsible for a specific area of interest concerning your House.
![[+]](/forums/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
About Harkonnen - just statement - not a fightRE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Jack_Henderson - 06-01-2015
The system that translucent described actually sounds really good and I guess it is (at least partially) the reason for Rheinland Gov's rather good reputation. It is/was special in being a "working government", and I also assume that the lack of totally knee-jerk reactions and obviously bad judgement comes from more than one person looking over it, voting on it.
I'd find it sad to see it go. For me, discussing things with a few people before doing it is a means of quality management. And one can say many things about Rheinland, but Rhein Gov did a very solid job in my opinion.
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Sturmwind - 06-01-2015
@FallenKnight: I'd love to discuss the Harkonnen issue OORP elsewhere. RM feedback if you insist on forum drama, but PMs and Skype are more suitable platforms.
@
Then again, if a member insists that consulting more people = quality decision making;
Quote: [...]you always have the chance to ask for the help of someone else, but this way, you're not forced to do so.
I myself trust all Bundestag members to be competent enough in the respective fields of their factions to be able to handle marginal issues alone.
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Pavel - 06-02-2015
All the best drama happens always when I'm away
![[Image: emoticon-00121-angry.png]](http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00121-angry.png)
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Sturmwind - 06-02-2015
You're more than encouraged to voice an opinion.
RE: [OORP] Changes in the Bundestag - Karst - 06-06-2015
Regarding the original announcement, we the Bundestag have a plot twist to present.
By a vote of 6/7 - ALG, BDM, DHC, Kruger, RFP, and RS - this change is hereby reversed.
In addition, a motion of no-confidence against Havok as Kanzler was also passed with the same vote.
The position of Kanzler is hereby rendered vacant and the official status of the account voided.