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+--- Thread: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries (/showthread.php?tid=130336)
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Highland Laddie - 06-08-2015
Quote:Well, lets run the numbers on our hypothetical ore to see the margins involved as they're currently proposed. Hypothetical ore is worth 10k a unit, and lets say the PoB is buying them for 3k each. Whatever the singular catalyst is will have to be imported from a central location in the capital system. Lets say you're paying $1,000 per unit to have that shipped in.
Currently that's a cost of $7,000 for every unit of Pure commodity produced. It's selling for $17.5k though. If you were to resale the Pure commodity for anything over $7,500 you're rapidly sliding towards the point where the trader is making less than selling a single load of normal ore. It's not worth it for them, but carries a huge risk due to the massive buy value of the cargo and the demands pirate will surely hit it with.
Throw in additional catalyst commodities and the price projections go through the roof. It simply wouldn't be viable to produce Pure any more. This is what I'm talking about - one commodity is more than enough to balance things out, and continues to straddle the line between balanced and outrageous.
Or...it forces the PoBs to change their prices to make it more viable. If the market can't support a $3,000/ea Ore price, then you lower it to stay competitive. Those who don't want to bother just drop out of the business, and then competition shrinks and then you can better control the price. Economics 101.
Folks have already been experiencing and doing just that with prices in the Docking Module market.
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Geolog - 06-08-2015
I like your proposal so far for base refineries Jammi. Very good +1
(06-08-2015, 12:54 PM)jammi Wrote: More people would then be able to inflict damage on bases which repairs slowly over time, as opposed to needing an entire fleet to simply overcome the repair rate. It'd also stop the current system of cheesing, where the base is invulnerable until you get enough people to very, very suddenly kill it.
There is a down side to this option. The groups that don't have big numbers to defend the base can't do anything to defend their Core 4 base when an 10 times bigger armada comes to siege it. Just look at Omega-11 the last two days. Several players defending a Core 1 base with endless waves of Corsairs and Hessians attacking the base. Every hour base was attacked and ofc it died after less then 48 hours. Yes, I was there defending the base even thought it wasn't mine and why shouldn't I defend it. Also, I felt like 300 Spartans against Persian Legion.
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Highland Laddie - 06-08-2015
Just fyi, here are previous ore refinery discussions over the past couple years that I found
or remember seeing, if you just want to see more thoughts on the matter.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=78154&highlight=PoB+refineries
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=110400&highlight=PoB+refineries
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=105914&highlight=PoB+refineries
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=93447&highlight=PoB+refineries
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=103510&highlight=PoB+refineries
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Cashew - 06-08-2015
Massive yes from BMM, this could allow us to really flesh out our future plans for the faction
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Hannibal - 06-08-2015
I'll also propose an additional option(s):
1.Without mining machinery---> speed is slow,cost is cheap(no commodity/additional price),less time invested ingame/in POB,best choice for a smaller group because they can sell at a lower price than their competition but in smaller quantities
2.With mining machinery---> speed is normal, cost is not insignificant,owners do need at least 1 transport per day (of 3,5k or above)
3.Using some research acquired in a Corvo,in a ore field---> speed will be significantly increased and so will the ratio of converting the normal ore to a pure version,you will be required 1 unit of that research per day to maintain the bonus to speed and yield of refined ore,cost will be higher but so will your profits..
1.Without mining machinery---> speed is slow,cost is cheap(no commodity/additional price),less time invested ingame/in POB,best choice for a smaller group because they can sell at a lower price than their competition but in smaller quantities
2.With mining machinery---> speed is normal, cost is not insignificant,owners do need at least 1 transport per day (of 3,5k or above)
3.Using some research acquired in a Corvo,in a ore field---> speed will be significantly increased and so will the ratio of converting the normal ore to a pure version,you will be required 1 unit of that research per day to maintain the bonus to speed and yield of refined ore,cost will be higher but so will your profits..
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Yoshi.Sato - 06-09-2015
(06-08-2015, 10:43 AM)jammi Wrote: The commodities this won't work for is Helium 3, Premium Scrap and Raw Hydrocarbons. Some additional thought would have to go into how they'd actually function and whether they'd even fit into my proposed system. Presumably Raw Hydrocarbons and Helium 3 could be sorted with a 'cracking facility' instead of a refinery or something like that. Maybe scrap could be a sorting workshop? Not sure.
Primary Component: Helium-3 (existing item)
Secondary Component: Deuterium (existing item)
Product: H-Fuel (existing item)
Factory Name: Fuel Refinery
Primary Component: Premium Scrap (existing item)
Secondary Component: Industrial Catalysts (proposed new item)
Product: Manifolds (existing item)
Factory Name: Metal Smelter
Primary Component: Raw Hydrocarbons (existing item)
Secondary Component: Cracking Catalysts (proposed new item)
Product: Hydrocarbons (existing item)
Factory Name: Hydrocarbon Refinery
I think the concept and your inputs is absolutely awesome! +9000 from me.
I do have some thoughts regarding it.
As to PoB's as Pavel pointed out, first it needs fixing, needs to be governed regulated and not by trigger happy lunatics, rather Faction Leader/Admin cooperation. PoB's within relevant lore context should accessible for groups that do their diligence on forums and in game, and not be under the threat of the above mentioned trigger happy lunatics.
If players are so eager to shoot a non moving target for several hours, than add Player Owned Outposts, that have no factory abilities, but minimal cargo space and limited amount of weapon platforms. This could be a cool tactical game to stage opposing forces close to combat hot spots and reduce the RP requirement to shoot them. As for PoB's take away the weapon platforms, making it non destructible by couple of bored players who just enjoy griefing other players in general.
Generally speaking in game trade commodities are more of an RP context, the actual commodity, let's all admit is not as relevant as how much credits one gets when it is delivered. That is my impression of the current scene. It should carry meaning what commodity a given faction deals with.
So PoB's lack of the functionality to generate revenue, unless it is micromanaged extensively by altering the prices. That is why i love this idea, because it has an extraordinary potential to add context to several faction, like a game mechanic that can allow the commercial faction's role to be actually played in game. Like the ALG example mentioned in the OP. Or technology companies could have the ability to produce and sell tech commodities. It is brilliant.
I think the large bulk of the commodities should be broken down to the following categories.
- Primary Component
- Secondary Component
- End Product
- Excess product
-Vanity non produced commodity
If the PoB's as Alley sad have the ability already to take A and B, and generate X and Y than a lot of can be built around it so commercial factions actually have a dynamic economy. I am willing to put a lot of effort into developing the details and have forum discussions related to each specific detail and fine tuning as long as this whole concept can be implemented.
So to walk through how i envisioned it, based on reading the OP, and what is my perspective on it.
Mine-able commodities should be required for each and every factory/refinery, that requires player to produce and cannot be just bought in a NPC base.
The End Product prices on selling points should be at the high price point, the currently existing commodities like for example Gold, should be the End Product and the low selling points should be removed. The End Products should only have a high import selling point. This actually would allow a mining faction to not just mine the commodity, also to refine it and transport it to a NPC sell point for high profit, or have a contract to take the ore to a PoB that is a factory or refinery.
Keep in mind that if PoB's have the ability to generate revenue, it also allows the base owner to invest into importing base supplies and factory/refinery components. Which fixes a lot of current issue with base supplying, since currently it is far less profitable to do it as a contractor compared to other trade opportunities.
By making the existing commodities the End Product, and alter the import selling points accordingly it give context to a lot of other commodities, like Optronics, Ship Hull Panels, Trade Lane Parts, even for Cryer Pharmaceuticals to generate from Medicine comodites from alien Organisms, or Cardamine to be produce from alien Organisms (imagine the orange buzz on disco
)Bottom line that it would add a LOT of complexity, objective, color, and enjoyment for the commercial side of disco, and most of the work is to develop each factory's component list, pair it with a NPC commodity that is relevant and allows Sell Point/Craft Location/Required Component location balance.
It is a lot of work but most can be done by the community and when it reached final stage and balance, it can be given to Alley with a picture of a kitten attached, to convince her to plug in the data.
It is a grand project, but it can be implemented in small steps, factory by factory, and trial by error balanced since it is really just tweaking commodity prices at that point.
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - FynnMcScrap - 06-10-2015
+ thumbs up
very well done, thank you for the work
Is there a possibility that we get some - even inofficial or not jet definitive - response from Admins hre about all this ? It seems do be finished by DEV statement, so "all it takes" is Admin setup and balancing.
- Is this discussed and / or planned already ?
- Is this "not wanted" or "bad for server" from Admin viewpoint ?
Its definitively wanted by community,
so I hope we can at least get some statement as to why its not mentioned at all by Admins ?
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Alley - 06-10-2015
(06-10-2015, 06:06 AM)FynnMcScrap Wrote: + thumbs up
very well done, thank you for the work
Is there a possibility that we get some - even inofficial or not jet definitive - response from Admins hre about all this ? It seems do be finished by DEV statement, so "all it takes" is Admin setup and balancing.
- Is this discussed and / or planned already ?
- Is this "not wanted" or "bad for server" from Admin viewpoint ?
Its definitively wanted by community,
so I hope we can at least get some statement as to why its not mentioned at all by Admins ?
You are wrong. Admins have nothing to do with this aside of customizing prices and sell points.
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - FynnMcScrap - 06-10-2015
Hm...
(06-08-2015, 06:21 AM)Alley Wrote: I already have this fully programmed with the module. I finished it about two years ago.
... what is missing, what has to be done, and is it possible to help without coding and programming knowledge ?
I read you in the quoted post as "DEV´s are finished" ?
RE: Suggestion: PoB ore refineries - Yoshi.Sato - 06-10-2015
(06-10-2015, 07:52 AM)Alley Wrote:(06-10-2015, 06:06 AM)FynnMcScrap Wrote: + thumbs up
very well done, thank you for the work
Is there a possibility that we get some - even inofficial or not jet definitive - response from Admins hre about all this ? It seems do be finished by DEV statement, so "all it takes" is Admin setup and balancing.
- Is this discussed and / or planned already ?
- Is this "not wanted" or "bad for server" from Admin viewpoint ?
Its definitively wanted by community,
so I hope we can at least get some statement as to why its not mentioned at all by Admins ?
You are wrong. Admins have nothing to do with this aside of customizing prices and sell points.
I would like to request to have a Sub forum opened under "Discovery Mod General Discussion" called "Discovery Economics Community Workshop". With such sub forum, each topic and details pertained to the balancing can be discussed separately, and pols can be made and such. So as a community effort we can develop the details.
Also mine-able commodities, and minefields need to be standardized and fixed first for this to even work, since factories and refineries would use mined commodities. So mine area location drop rates would have to be standardized and balanced first.