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+--- Thread: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! (/showthread.php?tid=152599)
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Jack_Henderson - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017, 10:39 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: The Iridium mining zone in Lost and the Azurite generator are perfect examples of how to not do it, though. Those areas are actually dangerous. People will always take the easier way when they know certain areas are harder to mine. I mean, instead of looking at how you'd like to have it, take a look at the actual situation, which ores are mostly traded and mined, which ores are connected with PoBs.
That's why - together with centralizsation and reduction - further changes need to come.
> field standardizsation: same amount of rocks, clearly visible, same drops/shot. No more "my ore takes 2x the time of yours to mine!" situations. That's why I have been mining like a dumbass in solitary confinement for the last days to get an idea of how (non-)standardized things are at the moment.
> Distance fairness: dockable bases need to be at the same distance. Can't be that some NPC bases are 14 k from the mining area (O3), and some are 80 k. If things become more competitive (like in my extreme draft), things also need to be fair. I suggest 20-25k, to have a distance that does not pre-define a winner in an encounter between miner/transport fleeing to base and unlawful.
Plus: you really need to change your attitude a little towards risk. Grinding alone, undisturbed, in total safety might be convenient, but think about the bigger picture. It's really harmful. It's the one thing that can actually kill Disco: nothing to do except grinding. Because even when you grinded your big shippie... there is nowhere to use it. That's where we almost are at the moment.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - YaoiKat - 08-07-2017
Basically throwing all recent economy dev team work into the trash? That's an interesting concept and personally I would like to see THIS take on mining to be done. But realistically speaking, I can't see it being implemented and I feel like you are just wasting your time.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Sombs - 08-07-2017
Why my attitude? I'm not mining. I'm rather looking at the fact I don't see people grouping up to mine Azurite Ore or Iridium Ore while it would be actually profitable if they take a miner and the rest as transports. But you won't get that. Instead you have Hegemons and Bisons mining and every now and then you actually see two or three people mining Gold Ore in Dublin or Copper in Kansas or you see single Salvagers in Texas. The only group mining in bigger groups is IMG in very irregular and not too often times a week. Similar to that you extremely rarely see trading convoys. While a convoy is fun as hell, people do stuff rather then when it is convenient for them. They don't grind for interaction. They grind for profit. You very rarely have transports stopping and doing actual RP, taking their time, while pirates are already so used to lolwut pirates that they are afraid the moment a trader doesn't pay at once he is calling for help.
This all would be totally fine if the community was different. But it isn't. Best example is Antonio who proudly shows off how to fool the player behind the pirate character by either borderline abusal of NPCs docking with tradelanes or closing the trade menu when the pirate accepted the trade. If you want to make mining really more interesting, do it like it is done in actual game/level design. As long as you have mining areas like Kansas and Dublin and Alberta, which are pretty secure because you are quickly there and can easily dock, nobody will go for dangerous areas. I'd strongly advise to make any mining area in house space way less valuable than they currently are while buffing anything which is far away from docking points, lanes and gates. Iridium was extremely interesting because it is actually valuable but also very dangerously placed, as we Vagrants often raided any size of mining group. Now all the lolwuts can go to the stupidly placed open-for-everyone base of AI and log in again once we're logged off.
You can't tell people to change their attitudes. They will always take the easy way. Be it trading, where they take 5k no armor no escort no memorable name ore powertrading ships instead of CAU8 Transport Shield Bisons with Cloaking Device and Dulzian loadout + escort. It's not efficient. And expensive. Same it is with mining. Centralization won't make it better. Instead, you should go for dangerous but very profitable mining areas in very remote areas. And hopefully, making PoBs use ores instead of 500 credits commodities.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - sasapinjic - 08-07-2017
I like Jack proposal.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Durandal - 08-07-2017
I'm going to raise the topic with Teerin and/or Xoria tonight and see if some kind of a compromise can be worked out. I'm not for this revision, but I'm not for the bloated mess that the proposed system is either. Try not to be so cynical, @Ramke. @YaoiKat
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Traxit - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017, 11:13 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: -snip-
You're being too negative, and let me tell you the reality.
People need to be forced to adapt to change because no one likes change when the effects aren't immediate and positive. But in the long-run the change shall benefit the majority of the community. If some people will leave or rage, let them. They are probably not fit for this place with their selfishness and greed anyway and I wouldn't like them being in this community, even more so have them taste some of my ooRP hatred with PvP.
Jack know's what he's proposing since he's a people's man, although a "common folk" leader (sorry if I offended but I don't know any other word for it), he knows what will generate activity since he's been here longer than me and you combined. Your mindset is totally distorted because you do not understand that there's a large community out there that needs to interact more with each other. Who cares about content if the majority does not enjoy it? You're right the mod is called "Discovery" and you should "discover", but what do you do when you've explored it all? The main focus is to interact with the community due to Roleplay being forced upon the community.
Your mindset is distorted - because you're not thinking about community, you're thinking about what you and your little friends get from this. Yet you say you're not even a miner, then why should you care? If anything this will bring you, even more, opportunities since there will be more people to interact with.
People will adapt and learn, for better or worse, the current situation isn't that merry anyway, so it's better to try it out at least.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Neptune - 08-07-2017
@OP I agree to a certain extent, especially in Omegas.
I'm sure you've seen the proposed mining changes spreadsheet. With those changes, we'll have BMM, DHC, IMG and Kruger all competing for Cobalt in O-47; most likely placed there for econ balance reasons (?). Perhaps we can start with baby steps and move the location of that particular field to Omega-9, a system that is still somewhat accessible by all four factions + regional unlawfuls, instead of throwing all variety out of the window for the sake of 'interaction', whatever that word means anyway on Discovery nowadays.
Some people have expressed that they don't encounter unlawfuls enough on their miners/transports. This is perhaps a regional/general server player count/time zone issue? Anecdotal evidence doesn't count for much but I've have yet to fly Aluminum to NL from Munich, or Copper from O-7 to NT and not meet at the bare minimum 2-3 unlawfuls at the usual chokepoints, granted this is on a tagged transport; in the past week this has included anything from GC to LWB, this is not even counting the dozens of Imperators and Vidars that currently reside F1d in O-7, popping up to say hello immediately when we do mining in O-7, in either Kruger or DHC fields
. I hate to say this, while well-intentioned this is nothing more than a radical short-term band aid solution that fails to address the bigger issue that Disco faces in general, which is the inefficiency with regards to attracting and retaining new players (the primary type of players attracted to trading factions) mainly due to the game's age. We're not at that point anymore where people are struggling to log on to the server because we're at capacity. Not a big fan of this since entire econ system will most likely have to be rebalanced.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Sombs - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017, 11:40 PM)Traxit Wrote:(08-07-2017, 11:13 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: -snip-
-bla-
Every dumb decision adds up to the end where people decide to leave. Don't underestimate it. I'm not negative but realistic. Otherwise we wouldn't have people logging during european nights to smuggle when nobody is around. And no, those people do not only play from other time-zones. I can only speak for myself - there is nothing I or whatever you think my little friends are - but people will always take the easiest way. Always. They'll take the way they profit from the most. Because how many people log for the entertainment of others, Traxit.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Antonio - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017, 11:13 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: This all would be totally fine if the community was different. But it isn't. Best example is Antonio who proudly shows off how to fool the player behind the pirate character by either borderline abusal of NPCs docking with tradelanes or closing the trade menu when the pirate accepted the trade.
![[Image: xd81eIj.png]](http://i.imgur.com/xd81eIj.png)
Because I did it about 3 out of 100+ times I interacted with a pirate in my life. The videos are for nothing more than satirical purposes, and I even refunded the guy on the second video. But do keep being ignorant and acting like you know better than everyone else. You're clueless about mining and you spent less time mining than most of the people in this thread, but yet again you're acting like you have an idea what you're talking about. I guess trading in a cloaking whale that can dock anywhere and buy anything does that to you eventually.
As someone who mined and hauled ore a -lot-, the whole "hegemons and bisons" argument is silly. Sure, a new player might prefer solo mining in a Hegemon, Kamome or a Salvager, but as soon as you get familiar with the mining system you'd know that by far the best mining ships are freighters, and if you have transports on the spot already - surveyors. It's usually done by calling a friend (or someone you meet ingame) to log in and mine for your ship. Karst's "mining communism" is a prime example of that. It's a chat where people can ask for miners which Karst put around Sirius. I don't think there's a day where someone doesn't ask for mining there, and someone else in the chat almost always answers. I myself logged those ships countless times, and the end result was always the same - little to no risk. I maybe got pirated a few times, but mostly because the pirate was just there rather than him "shadowlogging" us because of "ooRP hate". That's also another joke of an argument, it's funny how always only a selected small group of same people complains about the same terms over and over again, while the terms themselves are laughable.
You're way too paranoid to the point where I wonder why do you have such a need to keep making up drama and negativity for no reason other than to piss a few people off. "What if I don't want to interact on my miner" is one of the worst sentences I've ever heard from someone who's crusading on how typing essays is the one true roleplay everyone must follow and how dare you do anything else such as shoot people in a space combat game!!!11 Oh, and putting exclamation marks at the end of each sentence! That increases roleplay immersion! This is a multiplayer server which prime task is to interact with other players. Giving the best money making source the ability to avoid interaction effortlessly dooms the whole economy system from the start. Might as well just start handing out money to players via player requests, it'll save everyone the trouble. Jesus Christ the ignorance.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Enkidu - 08-08-2017
Is this going to turn into another argument perpetuated by certain people?
(08-07-2017, 11:07 PM)YaoiKat Wrote: Basically throwing all recent economy dev team work into the trash? That's an interesting concept and personally I would like to see THIS take on mining to be done. But realistically speaking, I can't see it being implemented and I feel like you are just wasting your time.
I strongly agree with this. We can't demand more dev transparency and then poop all over their work whenever they change anything - the idea behind additional transparency is that we worked with them, not against. They're far more impartial than any of us.