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+--- Thread: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM (/showthread.php?tid=200620)
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - Redline.Inc - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 08:52 PM)Couden Wrote: Why do I see same attitude from PoBers every single time some base is going to be destroyed?
Because we all know that tomorrow it will be another one, and another endlessly. The old saying "Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it" comes to mind. I understand that being an agent of chaos is what makes FL fun for you. But doing so to the extent that you remove the fun for others is bad for the mod. Sieges should be fun RP and PvP, but 2 dozen ships camping the base and ganking anyone that comes near isn't that. It's yourself and your ilk enjoying blowing up other people's hard work because you can. An RP and PvP good time can be had by all without destroying the base. Doing so serves only your egos, to the detriment of the community upon which the mod relies. For you guys, it's all about destroying someone's base and nothing else. Flatly sociopathic behavior.
Perhaps ruling over an ash heap that no one else wants to visit anymore is a suitable goal to you and your friends? Well, have fun with that when no one else is here, because that is where this path leads.
It's not just about the bases, it's about removing other people's desire to play here. If what is currently happening in this mod is how things are going to be here from now on, As a 15 year veteran of Disco I say thanks, but no thanks. Something that a great many of my fellow veteran players are also saying. Enjoy ganking the newbies as our combined nearly a half century of Disco playing bows out until this place makes sense again. (if ever)
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - DSE- - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 08:39 PM)[Renegade] Wrote: Camping outside the POB and not really giving the defenders any sort of chance aswell is not good gameplay in my opinion.
But I suppose that is just the general way that Disco is now. Seal Club the players who want to make things work just for their kicks.
Dead right. It seems that the development of 5.0 is weighted.
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - [Renegade] - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 09:08 PM)Redline.Inc Wrote:(11-21-2023, 08:52 PM)Couden Wrote: Why do I see same attitude from PoBers every single time some base is going to be destroyed?
Because we all know that tomorrow it will be another one, and another endlessly. The old saying "Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it" comes to mind. I understand that being an agent of chaos is what makes FL fun for you. But doing so to the extent that you remove the fun for others is bad for the mod. Sieges should be fun RP and PvP, but 2 dozen ships camping the base and ganking anyone that comes near isn't that. It's yourself and your ilk enjoying blowing up other people's hard work because you can. It serves only your egos, to the detriment of the community upon which the mod relies.
Perhaps ruling over an ash heap that no one else wants to visit anymore is a suitable goal to you and your friends? Well, have fun with that when no one else is here, because that is where this path leads.
The path that it leads to is basically decent people will leave the game and also new players will be reluctant to come.
The commodity situation means that POBs are harder to stock and also their regeneration is slower. which gives the ones who seige the advantage in my opinion.
Barges are completely useless, as I used mine to just restock bases and NOT to trade like some people did.
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - Chenzo- - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 12:06 AM)DSE- Wrote: There are 176 bases, of which 67 are in actual decay. (This does not count the special SRP POB's which are included in the total numbers of POBs but not listed as decaying). This is approximately 40% of all POB's and is a very unhealthy statistic for Discovery. How many died since 5.0 was introduced I do not know.
I have never, ever seen so many bases being neglected as a percentage of the total number of PoBs. Period.
When I look at the poll results from my Impressions of 5.0 to date post we can see there is a extremely troubling correlation.
Of the 87 votes, (ignoring the 9 "so-so" middle votes), 36 voted negatively, 42 voted positively. What is very disconcerting is the number of voters who hate the changes (13) is double those who say it is the best ever. (8).
40 percent of the voters are disappointed, do not like it, or hate it. 40% of the bases are decaying.
Housten we have a problem... a BIG one.
The numbers which make up the positive feedback ironically tally to the number of Developers.
Let's face it - The changes made to PoB's apart from consumption rates and astronomical(pun intended) cost of time and credits it takes to own one are actually good. The concept is friggin' awesome.
The implementation of the PoB stuff is where it falls down though. Aingar is a super-god level of genius in coding but he's only as good as the idea's he's asked to implement.
Lore has been violated in so many ways it's not funny.
Capital ships have been ruined.
VHF's have been severely ruined.
Bombers may as well not exist- Totally useless.
Barges have been ruined after the lead developer promised the community there would be no ruining of said ship. Another developer tried to sell the ship. Oh look, it s worthless now.
A community which hoped for so much were laughed at unless your faction has a dedicated developer.
Let's not completely disregard the sheer level of effort which went in, that much is undeniable and regardless of everything which is majorly wrong, the effort the developer team have put in is immense.
It's just a shame that "powergaming" is hidden as something called "Balance" later to be tossed off as a "Skill issue".
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - Kauket - 11-21-2023
Are you new to sieges Renegade? This is a valid strat to stop people from getting a larger force. (Not to mention to happened to our side) - Also matters on how you round up too.
Also bare in mind none of this would be happening if people actually roleplayed. Bases do definitely need a defensive buff, repair rates need to be higher for sure. I also kind of wish we had drone modules but for bases - limited number of npcs that can spawn in to defend the bop but that's probably way too hard to code.
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - Karlotta - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 08:52 PM)Couden Wrote: Why do I see same attitude from PoBers every single time some base is going to be destroyed?
Because it's normal human behavior.
You don't understand it, neither does the staff who made POBs as they are. You guys just understand that people suffering at your hands gives you endorphins and a feeling of power, so you want more.
EDIT:
incoming "hahaha hihihi someone criticized staff, they must think its a CONSPIRACY omg I said it and won the internet once again"
Nobody thinks you're masterminding a conspiracy. Nobody thinks you're masterminding anything, or are even aware of what you're doing and why yourselves.
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - Reeves - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 09:15 PM)Chenzo- Wrote: Lore has been violated in so many ways it's not funny.
Going to leave this here for posterity given the poster.
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - Chenzo- - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 09:29 PM)Reeves Wrote:(11-21-2023, 09:15 PM)Chenzo- Wrote: Lore has been violated in so many ways it's not funny.
Going to leave this here for posterity given the poster.
Do explain?
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - St.Denis - 11-21-2023
To answer the OP's statement, the amount of POBs decaying is probably down to a handful of reasons.
1) People not happy with the changes/the direction the mod is heading - these people just up sticks and leave (very few bother with leaving Threads, as we all generally know where that leads to).
2) Mining dying a death. A lot of Bases were used as a hub for Miners to drop Ore and Haulers to pick it up and transport it to wherever. Quite a few were 'non-profit' making Bases ie, the Miner sold to the Base for a price and the Haulers buying for the same price. The Base Owner picking up the tab for the upkeep.
Now Ores aren't worth hauling as the Refined Goods are the 'new' ore.
b) The distance/accessibility of getting some ores just isn't worth the effort.
Lets take Gold Ore as an example.
Planet New London pays 30 credits for a load of ore. For that you have to travel down a Trade Lane, then cruise 30k to the Jump Hole, then cruise another 50k to the Mining Field. Mine your Ore, now reduced to 50% because it takes up 2 Units, and then cruise back to PNL. So a round trip of 160k and 2 TLs for 30 credits x 50% of your hold.
On the way to the Mining Field, you have to cruise past the Molly POB (approx 30k from the field). They possibly have alerts when certain Tags/names enter Dublin., because you can quickly be wearing 3+ Mollys, including a GB.
Canary Wharf Station offers Miners 50% increase in the price of Ore (ie 45 credits per unit) and this still doesn't entice people to mine.
Why should they mine, when they can run their Zoner Whales all day from Arranmore with Gold to Delta and Iridium back? It almost a constant occurrence.
I believe this isn't the only Field with this kind of problem.
c) Refineries - Nice idea but maybe needs tweaking some. Lets say you sell 30k of Refined Goods. That needs replacing. You have a Refinery (all's well then). To replace the 30k (and you get the bonus) you will need 42,500 units of Ore. Using a 5ker, that is 17 trips there and back.
A few Mining Fields have been moved further away from their original positions, so this now adds time. So, unless you have dedicated group of Miners/Haulers, the Mining has died and people will just mine enough for their needs (for those Groups making the 'special' equipment).
3) Cost - Before the update, to maintain a Core 4 Base it would cost about 1.2 million a day, 8.4 million a week, 404 million a year (giving 4 weeks off for Christmas). This was at cheapest prices.
Now it costs 41,440 (4.1 million) a day, 290,080 (29 million) a week, 13,923,840 (nearly 1.4 billion) a year. This is at the cheapest prices.
Old prices:
RA = 250 - price was generally the same everywhere.
Food = 72
Oxygen = 20
Water = 30 maximum this ever went up to was about 120 credits
New Prices:
BA = 7
Food = 5
Oxygen = 1
Water = 1
These are all tradeable commodities now so just moving 1 System from source can easily increase the prices by about 5-7 credits each. This makes that 41,440 credits each day shoot up quite drastically.
There may be other reasons, but these are my observations from talking to people.
RE: Dismal stats = BIG PROBLEM - Karlotta - 11-21-2023
(11-21-2023, 09:08 PM)Redline.Inc Wrote:(11-21-2023, 08:52 PM)Couden Wrote: Why do I see same attitude from PoBers every single time some base is going to be destroyed?
Because we all know that tomorrow it will be another one, and another endlessly. The old saying "Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it" comes to mind.
Devs think he SHOULD do this.
It is their expressed oPiNIoN that POBs should be more vulnerable, so people like Couden will do this so there will be fewer POBs. That's also why they made the idiotic decision of forcing people to build far away from NPC bases, which made several other problems around POBs worse.
If you wonder why anyone would think that making POBs both "central to the economy" AND more vulnerable to destruction at the same time is a good idea, at the price of making them unimmersive af by scattering them around far from other places that would make sense IRP...
They simply don't seem to think that far.
And if you try to get them to take that step they will clam up and call everything you say a mere oPiNiOn, and theirs is just different and you must accept theirs because dey got da powa.