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+---- Thread: 5.1 "Aftershock" (/showthread.php?tid=203235)
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - SnakThree - 06-04-2024
- Added: Separated EFL Lane/Gate Parts and Ageira Lane/Gate Parts. Aimed to provide one buypoint in each system with a relevant lane/gate, choosing most 'secure' local station available.
Finally. Just 16 months later after I pointed out this nonsense. Not that anyone cares now anymore. Take care.
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - Venkman - 06-04-2024
(06-04-2024, 06:58 PM)SnakThree Wrote: - Added: Separated EFL Lane/Gate Parts and Ageira Lane/Gate Parts. Aimed to provide one buypoint in each system with a relevant lane/gate, choosing most 'secure' local station available.
Finally. Not that anyone cares now anymore. Take care.
womp womp
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - SnakThree - 06-04-2024
Added: System Wall:
- All systems now have an invisible wall at 200k away from the system center. Coming in contact with the wall disables your engines and stops you completely.
- Added: New flhook features:
Buy/Sell prices - Bases are now capable of selling and purchasing items at different prices. POBs also have this implemented, with /shop commands letting you take full advantage of this. Do note that this feature is only fully supported in multiplayer. In singleplayer the 'sell' price is purely visual.
Brilliant changes though. Good stuff.
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - Couden - 06-04-2024
(06-04-2024, 07:10 PM)SnakThree Wrote: Added: System Wall:
- All systems now have an invisible wall at 200k away from the system center. Coming in contact with the wall disables your engines and stops you completely.
Indeed nice change. I do love it.
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - SeaFalcon - 06-06-2024
The new bomber balance is pretty horrible.
- Bombs that do 6k dps vs an equipped fighter that does 5k with 4 guns while bombs require you to facehug an enemy due to lack of speed and aiming abilities, meaning effective bomb DPS is far lower than 6k.
- Torpedoes have so little chance to hit, the lack of ammo hurts them even more and when they do hit, nothing impressive happens in terms of damage, might as well just use your fighter guns for the same damage output but regular fighters can do that to.
- A shield that absorbs capital hits might be a pro but the massive drain makes having a shield not even worth it and forces the bomber to use weapons, bombs and torps that are not any better than regular fighters.
for anything less than a battlecruiser you're better off just using your regular guns and not using the bomber slots at all.
for anything bigger than a battlecruiser you won't have enough DPS or Ammo to really make a dent.
Good to see every big patch completely changing all the numbers and managing to still be worse in balance than the previous one.
So sad to see every ship being redone for balance while a simple few tweaks like the torpedo delay and fuse ability was enough to fix certain people abusing weapons for things they weren't meant to do.
Looks like another classic nerf of "lets lower every stat we can possibly find and that'll fix it" instead of checking where the problems were and only tweaking one or two attributes.
I don't get why nerfs always have to be across the board rather than simply dialing it in.
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - Busy Miner - 06-06-2024
That "Deep Core Mining" system that is tested in Dublin, do mining bonuses still apply or can anybody do this now?
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - Haste - 06-06-2024
(06-06-2024, 10:58 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: - Bombs that do 6k dps vs an equipped fighter that does 5k with 4 guns while bombs require you to facehug an enemy due to lack of speed and aiming abilities, meaning effective bomb DPS is far lower than 6k.
Their strength is not raw DPS. It is not intended to be. Bombs are absurdly efficient, offsetting the fact that bombers have less recharge to work with while their shields are up. They are two out of your eight total weapons. There's a reason you have eight.
(06-06-2024, 10:58 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: - Torpedoes have so little chance to hit, the lack of ammo hurts them even more and when they do hit, nothing impressive happens in terms of damage, might as well just use your fighter guns for the same damage output but regular fighters can do that to.
I agree with the low hit-rate, which is why the latest hotfix increased their turn rate from 30 to 50 degrees per second. Their seeker cone angle will likely go up in the future, too. Obviously they objectively do large amounts of damage for their energy expenditure and modern-day capital ship health values. 5.58 efficiency in a post-armor removal world is nuts. Do also remember that capital ship players are expected to either flak or shoot down Novas as they have no other counterplay against 2k+ range weapons when prims and secondaries stop hitting past ~400 meters. As with bombs, you are expected to use a mix of guns and torpedoes and really use everything your bomber has mounted, not a tiny subset of equipment.
(06-06-2024, 10:58 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: - A shield that absorbs capital hits might be a pro but the massive drain makes having a shield not even worth it and forces the bomber to use weapons, bombs and torps that are not any better than regular fighters.
Good to hear. We set out to make fighters viable all-round ships and bombers essentially side-grades of them focused on stronger defenses (and bombs/torpedoes with very high efficiency to still allow them to do damage when virtually out of core). It sounds like we reached our goal, then. Bombers are not meant to be better than fighters, just to offer an alternative playstyle with different strengths and weaknesses.
(06-06-2024, 10:58 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: for anything less than a battlecruiser you're better off just using your regular guns and not using the bomber slots at all.
Partially true. I definitely found myself using Neutralizers and Scorchers against Cruisers and below, you just can't rely on them entirely and need to use them intelligently. Still, this is intentional. Novas in particular cannot both do healthy amounts of damage to 2+ million health Battleships and be balanced against Gunboats at the same time if they can hit both targets equally well. But this is, again, an intentional game mechanic. The larger your target, the more viable bombs and torpedoes become.
(06-06-2024, 10:58 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: for anything bigger than a battlecruiser you won't have enough DPS or Ammo to really make a dent.
This simply doesn't match what I have seen fighters and bombers do in-game since the patch. Remember that you've got eight total guns, don't just use two of them.
(06-06-2024, 10:58 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: Good to see every big patch completely changing all the numbers and managing to still be worse in balance than the previous one.
We set out here to make fighters a viable ship in anything but their own little bubble (fighter versus fighter). We have achieved this goal. Bombers are still viable, and are at most minor number tweaks away from being very solid choices in most, or even all scenarios. This is a massive improvement from 5.0 where bombers absolutely trashed fighters by virtue of their insane DPS numbers, and fighters were entirely useless in the game as a whole. Both classes now have their place.
(06-06-2024, 10:58 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: So sad to see every ship being redone for balance while a simple few tweaks like the torpedo delay and fuse ability was enough to fix certain people abusing weapons for things they weren't meant to do.
Looks like another classic nerf of "lets lower every stat we can possibly find and that'll fix it" instead of checking where the problems were and only tweaking one or two attributes.
I don't get why nerfs always have to be across the board rather than simply dialing it in.
The things people were "abusing" that they "weren't meant to do" was to fire infinite core weapons designed to kill 6 million health ships at fighters and bombers with anywhere between 8,000 and 20,000 health. You can't fundamentally fix this without doing what we did, which is to make it so bombers have to play the same core management game every other class has to and bring damage output between the snub classes much closer together.
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - Hemlocke - 06-06-2024
I like patch.
Cruiser v Cruiser is kinda bland, will admit.
Still like patch though.
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - Aingar - 06-06-2024
(06-06-2024, 01:55 PM)Busy Miner Wrote: That "Deep Core Mining" system that is tested in Dublin, do mining bonuses still apply or can anybody do this now?
ID bonuses apply to Deep Core Mining as well.
RE: 5.1 "Aftershock" - Busy Miner - 06-06-2024
(06-06-2024, 02:22 PM)Aingar Wrote:(06-06-2024, 01:55 PM)Busy Miner Wrote: That "Deep Core Mining" system that is tested in Dublin, do mining bonuses still apply or can anybody do this now?
ID bonuses apply to Deep Core Mining as well.
Thanks!