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+--- Thread: "New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. (/showthread.php?tid=21052)
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - hack - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:Questions that arise from this idea:
- In order to differentiate Factions from Groups, what kind of rights should [Official] Factions have over Groups or Independent players?
- Should the 500m fee stay or go?
- Should we limit the amount of official factions for each NPC group depending on the group? And what about Corporations whose headquarters are under the flag of a house?
- Should Independent players have a representative on the council?
- Should Factions be able to lose those rights if they go the wrong way?
- Should Groups have to abide by the policies set by the Council too?
1. For Example, there is only 1 Liberty Navy Command. The high command should rest with the Official faction. The higher ranking members of the Official faction should be able to order unofficial or indie groups and have them obey. (Within reason). The official Factions should be the sole custodians of a Factions history, roleplay, and diplomacy.
2. Yes, it should stay. Its shows a commitment to the server and community and isn't something just to do for the week
3A. In some cases Yes. For example, you wouldn't want 5 different LPI police departments. There are barely enough players to fill out one Police Department.
3B. Some Corporations are big enough you might get away with it. For Example, you had Ageria the Corporation, then You had Ageria Lane Security, a Ageria Subdivision.
4. The questions is, how many independent players? If you have 30 indy players, how do you select one?
5. If it can be shown that they ON PURPOSELY abused the power or influence, yes.
6. Yes
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Korrd - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:(...)say there's like, 12 seats on a council. Obviously this wont work for all factions. (...)There would be one seat for each faction. That ensures that no individual faction gets too much power, as all would be represented by the same amount of representatives.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - LoTeK_ - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:I see your point.I do not.
I'm sorry to say it but I'm conservative here, full democracy is not the way to go.
Pay the 500mil, post your work for the community to see, comment and approve, then admin vote.
It's working good to me and I don't see a reason for a change.
I'm open to some interesting ideas I've read so far on the subject during these days but not on a full scale change like this, which would probably see me leaving my KNF Taishō rank to someone else as it would start to become too much time consuming compared to how already it is.
' Wrote:So you basically mean that it would be better to have all factions that go under the same NPC group to form a council that would then decide the course of action they should follow?I don't find it a great idea because it's too much complex and reflect too much the burocracy issue largerly present in the real world, this is a game after all.
If so, it's a great idea that addresses a problem that is currently present on the server.
That would also give place to new RP opportunities, since there could be civil wars, splits, ingame and forumside council meetings, and a lot more things that do not happen often around here.
Fun should be the keyword, it does't have to become a work otherwise it's not fun anymore...given no one see a cent a part from donations that goes to the server maintainance and improvement.
Despite someone may say, leadership in the official factions and admins of this server are very sensible, and daily spend lot of time making RL sacrificies to keep up ideas/feedback/stories/whatnot, and it takes a lot...I can attest that.
They sometimes have to make a stand for the good of many, which can be seen as "powermongering" from the few but that's what also life is about...making choices.
Theres a said around my parts: you can't have the barrel full and the wife drunk.
Lo
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - torchwood - 05-26-2009
the 500 million rule should stay but maybe like 350 mil or somthing, it tells factions to take it seriously, that they need to take a risk, though it needs to be publicised a bit more, alot of factions have posted a request without the 500 million.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Wolfs Ghost - 05-26-2009
I believe Independent and Non-Official factions (Going to call Non-Official Factions, Clans.) should have a seat in the council(s), that way an Official Faction can keep an eye on the clans as well as help point them in the right direction, through roleplay rather then OORP and flames between members.
As for Independent players, they should form together into a Clan and appoint one person as a representative for the Faction Council(s). However if they don't want to form a Clan, then they should be invited by the Faction Council(s).
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Spear - 05-26-2009
Yeah I have to agree with Athenian and Dieter, I worry about over complex idea's.
1 seat per faction? So Joe or Virus sitting on the council have the same rights and voting power as some capwhoring indie group in establishing military diplomacy? I am unconvinced.
On the whole the server is not broken, just going through some teething trouble. I can see some unlawful faction's being split into "gangs" but the joy of playing my military chars is having a place in an established hierarchy. I don't lead any faction nor will I ever, I used to on a previous mod and the top job irritated me beyond belief.
It's already a pain in the backside for faction leaders, now we are suggesting that official faction leaders have the same rights as a group of new guys that power traded there way to a Cap fleet, made up a tag and paid 250 mill without a decent faction app?
I appreciate the good intentions behind the proposal, but this flies right in the face of the "Official factions should have more power poll" which at the moment is a heavily "Yes" vote. Are we now about to toss that vote aside? As much as I dislike the use of the word power, I do think official factions should have more control than some random group that just decided to power trade there way to unofficial faction status and suddenly make their own diplomacy in the face of the established official factions.
I hope that makes sense.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - swift - 05-26-2009
I don't recall anyone saying that people would be instantly granted a seat on a council as soon as they'd get a random group going, Spear.
This'd be for deserving indies and official factions, I think.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Spear - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:I don't recall anyone saying that people would be instantly granted a seat on a council as soon as they'd get a random group going, Spear.
This'd be for deserving indies and official factions, I think.
Perhaps Swift, I'm not sure if I am understanding this proposal fully, which worries me because if it's not easily understood then it won't work.
Who decides who is a deserving indie for example?
I am not trying to shout you down Korrd, far from it, I just think that this kind of stomps on the poll you made. Maybe I should go to sleep and come back tomorrow with a fresh head :laugh:
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Blodo - 05-26-2009
I have a certain amount of issues over this thread:
1. Wouldn't "forcing" a council of factions effectively rob player factions that share the same NPC faction of any uniqueness that they may hold? After all, the 3 different Outcast or 3 different Corsair factions don't differ much in their main task repertuar (kill the Corsair/Outcast), and are wholly in RP doing that. But what they do differ in (especially the Corsair ones) is their relations to other factions that they may or may not encounter in their area of space. One Corsair faction has stronger alliances, than another, while another might not respect a faction as much as the other one, etc. etc. forcing a shared diplomacy robs them of that possibility in my opinion, and is wholly detrimental to server RP.
2. Why do we still need to pay the 500mil fee to submit a faction proposal? If anything, this rewards not the ability to RP but the ability to powertrade a few hundred mil... which any kid can do basically. I would be quite content if that fee was removed frankly... I have faith that the community, as inquisitorial as it is today, will tear apart any potentially malicious request without as much as a glimmer of mercy. Then - as mentioned in the other thread - judging by the outcome of the proposal thread, the admins can stamp approval or just quick lock it and declare it a failed try.
I'd especially like admins to comment on this, since I feel those are important issues.
"New faction creation process and representation" discussion thread. - Guest - 05-26-2009
' Wrote:1) Military/Police/Corporation factions : There should be only one official faction for each NPC faction. There may be more unofficial ones.
I do feel that I'm being selfish but... Where would this leave factions/unofficial factions (Groups) that don't actually play the as the NPC faction such as (Here comes the selfish bit) Aves Industries, we're BMM tagged and ID'd since our main contractor is BMM not because we are playing the NPC faction.
We do hope to eventually get a Barge once we 1) Become (hopefully) official and 2) Reach certain yet to be written down goals (Sketchy yes I know). I'm guessing that you propose that only one BMM ID/tag (Or any other corporation) faction would be allowed to become official in which case our goals would be for nothing since a BMM faction is already attempting to become official (and unless by some strange stroke of unbelievable luck, they will be official long before we feel we're ready to attempt to become official).
I do how ever have to agree with the Military and Police part (There goes some more selfishness).
As for the council proposal, why not have a "council" for each of area of house (that would include the Outcasts and Corsairs) each official faction of the house gets a seat on the "council", for example LN/LPI/LR/LH/HF/XA for Liberty (Have I left any out?) would make decisions regarding what should and shouldn't happen in that particular area of space.
The 500 million should stay but be refundable if the faction doesn't wish to have a system/barge at all or any time soon.