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+--- Thread: What is an ID? (/showthread.php?tid=2594)
What is an ID? - Malaclypse 666 - 03-21-2007
Regarding "House" ID's:
While the Houses have a very limited and strict RP laid out (game history, infocards, the Bret/Kusari war, etc.); the fact that players may join these "Houses" without being membes of the Faction(s) representing the Houses causes a number of issues, both good and bad.
The good thing would be that these "Independents" are somewhat bound by the same RP as the Faction which "controls" or represents the house, and therefore must act accordingly to a degree.
There are several bad possiblilites as well:
1). Lack of coordination and/or cooperation with the "parent" Faction. For example, KNF is not quite prepared for all-out war with SF; yet an indidivual who has taken the KNF alignment without being a member of [KNF] might possibly take it upon himself to attack SF unilaterally, which could have unfortunate circumstances beyond the control of either [KNF] or [SF].
2). Possible espionage. I refer to Nussebull's claim that a person who was not an SA member decided to create a Liberty character with the possible motive of passing information to the Faction's enemies. This same individual was recently seen with a Kusari-affiliated vessel. Now what am I to think, when most of that person's "other" characters are either hostile or enemies to the [KNF]?
3) "Rainy day" participation. This fits with 1) above primarily. In the event of a major offensive or defensivse "need" by the main Faction, there is no guarantee that the "un-membered" but RP-aligned players would answer the Faction's call to respond; nor follow the Faction's guidelines and "orders" if they did respond. In fact, with several of the supposed Kusari-aligned characters floating about up north, there is every possiblility that they might decide it would be more "fun" to sit it out, or even revert back to their faction characters which would actually be aligned against Kusari.
At present, there is no mechanism in place to address these issues. The person is not a member of the Faction per se, and so cannot be reprimanded, punished, or "cashiered" for individual actions. Nor can their loyalties and motives be assured, as could those of someone who has bothered to actually join the Faction and support its goals.
I don't have a solution, other than perhaps a blanket statement of some kind that players wishing to create an RP-aligned character in a House or other major Faction must adhere to the same principles and goals as the primary House Faction (SF, SA, RM, KNF); and accede to their lawful orders in the event any engagements they participate in.
The "invitation-only" approach doesn't seem to solve this problem when it comes to the "big four", as I don't think it prevents the "unmembered" yet RP-aligned individuals from doing whatever they please; whether it fits the agenda of the main House (Player) Faction or not.
What is an ID? - Qunitinius~Verginix - 03-21-2007
I have never agreed with adding 'Faction Specific ID's before, but I have to say I support this Idea. Helghast really could use their own ID now that I think about. I think this is a step forward for the community.
But rememebr, this is only for the Establist factions on the server and new factions can't just pop up and be like 'ZOMGS! I needz a faction ID for my NEW Clan lolz!!!!evleven!!!!!111!!!ONE!!!
Verginix Out
What is an ID? - DBoy1612 - 03-21-2007
' Wrote:But rememebr, this is only for the Establist factions on the server and new factions can't just pop up and be like 'ZOMGS! I needz a faction ID for my NEW Clan lolz!!!!evleven!!!!!111!!!ONE!!!
You know what... Just from that... It kinda shows that this idea won't work... But we will see what Igiss thinks.
What is an ID? - Dab - 03-21-2007
Another reason you can't use invite-only for the houses, is because it will take away the freedom of the players. Personally, I see the player factions aligned with certain NPC factions as being more in control and leading it, and the non-faction players being a bit below that. For example, I see KNF as the rulers of Kusari, and my not-quite-complete Kusari Destroyer being just a defensive char that can be called on for help in defense/attack by KNF.
And no, Nussebull is wrong, Tank isn't making chars to 'get information.' Heck, you don't really get any information that way, as its non-faction RP character. Its a pathetic accusation. I have a KNF Destroyer, without the [KNF] tag, and Tank is doing the same. I did it because I like Kusari, especially the GB and Destroyer (<- Best GB and Destroyer in the game in my opinion..). Making those characters gives you something to do other than you faction characters. I don't always want to fly around as an AW, as for when we are not at war it gets a bit boring. I switch to them when needed, or if I'm updating them with equipment/weaps, or in the middle of making a new one. Thats why I have alot of different chars. My KNF Destroyer, my Nomad (3xCannons don't work very well in fights.. Can't take the bloody shield), my yacht (Lux Liner), and a few others, like my Bundschuh.
It gives you something else to do instead of the same thing day after day. Its especially useful for those of us who hate trading, such as Tank and me..
Then there is the RP reasons, such as my soon-to-be completed Nomad-infested Rheinland.. Something (GB or Cruiser, haven't decided..) that will act as a nomad infested ship to attempt making new wars (though it will require other players to play along.. If it doesn't, it gets a name change and becomes just another ship of war for AW..). And my soon-to-be Aurelia Silvan character, since I've had the character on forums for awhile, but haven't created her in-game yet.
A person can only gain information from you that way if you let them. If someone isn't in your faction, just has same alignment, treat them as a friendly, not another person of your faction..
One thing we could do to prevent people from demanding constant IDs, is to make them be a faction on the server, with a generic ID for 3 months. If they are still here, and demonstrated that they have an RP, and don't already fit a faction, then they get an ID. They must be dedicated to their RP, and demonstrate they aren't just a 'war-whore/pvp-whore' faction. Thats what Xenos tag is for. Then they get the ID and options about getting a system.
What is an ID? - Firebird - 03-22-2007
' Wrote:One thing we could do to prevent people from demanding constant IDs, is to make them be a faction on the server, with a generic ID for 3 months. If they are still here, and demonstrated that they have an RP, and don't already fit a faction, then they get an ID. They must be dedicated to their RP, and demonstrate they aren't just a 'war-whore/pvp-whore' faction. Thats what Xenos tag is for. Then they get the ID and options about getting a system.
Well given the IDs would have to be added in mod updates, making a faction wait 3 months shouldn't be too difficult, lol. Just make them wait a revision for their request to be fulfilled, if they're still around then the ID gets added. Think the big thing though is that the mod is used by other servers as well. Having the additional IDs could work for here but not everywhere. Then again there already is the Phantom's ID so meh whatever works and Igiss says.
Some general info comments:
Really the main point of the ID is:
1) To get around the fact that reps are difficult to maintain properly for every single group
2) So that a new player or someone unfamilar with the player factions knows what to expect based at least on the ID.
From the point of view of a new player, I see a Liberty police/military ID, I can expect to be scanned and engaged if doing something considered illegal or if I'm too friendly with the rogues. I see a RH pirate ID, I can expect to be asked for cargo if I'm carrying a trader ID or engaged if carrying RH police. I'm suddenly attacked by a Xenos ID, assuming live long enough to scan the ID then at least I know why I was shot.
What is an ID? - Dab - 03-22-2007
I believe Igiss said it would be added server-side so other servers using the mod wouldn't be a problem.
What I think the biggest thing needing to be done here, is that factions with their own ID don't get too much leeway or freedom. They still need some restrictions. Such as Phantoms basically, cannot ally lawfuls such as SF, SA, RM, and KNF. It just wouldn't fit their RP, at least currently.
AW shouldn't be allowed to attack at random. It should be provoked, or a reason for it. Such as being attacked before, or an ally is getting attacked. We shouldn't, however, be allowed to just waltz into, say New Berlin, and randomly shooting up the RM. There should be a reason for it. Not to say RM needs to know the reason, might be useful for some to be kept secret for the RP, but an admin or RP-moderator should make sure in that case that the reason would be valid.
I really don't care either way this goes. I get my ID, cool. I don't, I get to keep Zoners, I like them *Points to Zoner Freak bar* so again, cool. You have my permission to take my opinion as unbaised.;)
:laugh:
What is an ID? - Malaclypse 666 - 03-22-2007
' Wrote:I really don't care either way this goes. I get my ID, cool. I don't, I get to keep Zoners, I like them *Points to Zoner Freak bar* so again, cool. You have my permission to take my opinion as unbaised.;)
:laugh:
I really have no reason not to, so since granted permission, I will take it as unbiased.
Should these new Faction IDs then require other specifics?
System ownership?
Strict adherence to the ID?
And perhaps to prevent the cloud raised by the Major Houses' "dilemma" of "freelance members", these new ID would be classified as invitation only if designed for a specific existing clan.
What is an ID? - Firebird - 03-22-2007
' Wrote:I really have no reason not to, so since granted permission, I will take it as unbiased.
Should these new Faction IDs then require other specifics?
System ownership?
Strict adherence to the ID?
And perhaps to prevent the cloud raised by the Major Houses' "dilemma" of "freelance members", these new ID would be classified as invitation only if designed for a specific existing clan.
Hmm likely, system ownership should be required for the ID. Makes finding the spot to place the ID really simple that way. And my thinking the adherence to the ID would be required like any ID. Have to write up the ID carefully, you wouldn't for example write into say the SF ID "SF always hostile to Hellfire Legion" since faction relations can dynamically change. Can put "SF hostile towards Bretonian terrorists and pirates." Should be up to the faction to write it out, but the ID should also be displayed on the forum prior to being inserted into the mod so others can constructively comment on. Nice part here is if we get a specific format to the ID, it can then be used on the faction status pages as a type of summary.
What is an ID? - Dab - 03-22-2007
Lol, didn't think anyone was gonna take that seriously Mal. Was really mean't as a joke.
And I believe these should be for system-owning factions only as well. They have to get the money for the system, the time of 3 months or so, dedicated RP, and all other faction rules.
Usually factions that have these things last for awhile unless their leadership just poofs away or gives up and changes factions completely.
What is an ID? - Denelo - 03-22-2007
' Wrote:And I believe these should be for system-owning factions only as well.
What about those of us who aren't related to any particular NPC faction? There's no way for us to have our own ID, as we can't have a system (unless Igiss adds generic clan systems? I know they wouldn't have guards, but it would be better than nothing...).