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+--- Thread: Three death rule (/showthread.php?tid=2698)
Three death rule - Wobbly - 04-13-2007
' Wrote:I'll quote a French one: 'On ne vie que deux fois'. (You live only twice)
But that is just a sarcastic joke. Anyway, 1 death is enough, specially if you use SB/NB. Gives a huge disadvantage to fighters. I fly fighters. More skill and honor.
Before, we had this, the capships weren't using NB/SB when engaging fighters (they weren't using them at all) the fighters got to use SB/NB when engaging capships. Fighters weren't using NB/SB when engaging other fighters. Again, more skill and honor.
There is no extra skill and honor in flying fighters, not using batts and botts, etc... and fighters against cap ships usually afterburner shield run anyway (which is just a tactic, neither honorable or dishonorable)
A time penalty works better imho, and I've played with 1 kill, time penalty, 3 kill, etc...
There is really only two things you are trying to accomplish, stop griefing, and stop endless respawns.
I have some suggestions but really can't be arsed to write a long post going into frieghters being killed, fleet battles and all that that or may not show up depending on if a mod or admin likes what I said or not.
' Wrote:I fear that this new rule of one death and that's it will turn Disco into Capital Ship heaven.
That has already happened if you didn't notice. Recently there was an issue in Honshu involving a merc, the KNF and the order, I have screenies, there were at least 8 ships there, one gunboat and everything else was a cruiser or BS.
Fighters are basically pointless except for shooting traders, and most pirates use gunboats for that.
Three death rule - Dab - 04-13-2007
I say 2-3 for fighters 1 for caps. Basically for the reasons given by others above.
But there are also reasons not already expressed. When capships in campaign fight, there are always alot of fighters. One MP there simply are not enough players for 4 fighters per capship that the SP goes for. Having 2-3 deaths for each fighter simulates those extras fighters we cannot simulate ourselves completely.
It wouldn't simulate reinforcements. Reinforcements are simulated by.. Reinforcements. If a faction needs them or wants them it should be up to them to get them, not given to them by server rules.
Now for my 3-death rule for all case, it won't obsolete fighters, as Caylith said. Also, it prolongs battles. Now I see people complaining about battles being long.. They're what, 1 hour at most? If you don't like fighting, don't be in a corp that fights all the time. I've seen people in SA that complain about having to fight all the time. What do they expect, join a military and spend their time chatting up the pirates instead of fighting them?
Personally I see the battles in FL to be the best part of the game (RP is the best part of the mod and server, not game, though I like RP more than the pvp aspect). As long as the pvp is justified by RP, than it should be fine. It should be fun.
Now some of you might complain that you don't like the battles so you don't want them to be longer, than I pose the question.. Why are you fighting in the first place?
I think it should be a compromise. 3 deaths for fighters, 1 for capships, no character switching after death or ones battle begins and your involved in it. You can only char switch if you are outside of the battle area (no one chasing you or fighting you) and have NOT died in your capship OR fighter. Same rule for fighter is because people would die twice in their fighter, then bring a capship. Once you have died once, your stuck with the ship your in.
Though personally I think char switching should be prohibited completely if you have already entered the fight. Find out what you need before you enter, not after.
Three death rule - Wobbly - 04-13-2007
' Wrote:I've already updated the rules according to the option that seems preferable for most members.
But you also have this rule:
7.2 All PvP/RP rules are overrun in the following situations:
- Self-defense - level 30 rule is not active;
- Straight-out war between NPC factions (Kusari vs Bretonia, Outcasts vs Corsairs, House vs local pirates) - level 30 rule is active;
- Straight-out war between player factions (officially declared) - level 30 rule is active.
Since the new 1 death rule is a pvp, and all pvp rules are overridden by war between factions, I assume (by your rules) there is no 1 kill limit if KNF fights Bretonia?
Three death rule - Malaclypse 666 - 04-13-2007
' Wrote:I say that anything smaller than a gunboat gets 2, maybe 3, deaths since they die so quickly. An ambush can take down a fighter in one volley..before the fighter can even respond...and that would put them out of the fight? Capital ships, having more firepower, armor and shield, should bow out of a fight after one death.
What say you?
An interesting take on the problem. I can see benefits for keeping that very important aspect of FL alive. Worth further consideratin, Cay. Thanks.
I also agree w/ Yngen that "huddling up" doesn't really fit the RP model that Discovery aspires to either. If it were in black 'n white, which it now seems to be, it would require a bit more planning by individual factions, rather some some "pre-arranged" and temporary agreement between combatants.
My vote? One death, but with support for Caylith's suggestion as well.
Mal
Three death rule - sushi - 04-13-2007
I don't care.
I won't hold anyone else to 1 death, 3 deaths, or 500 deaths. If they keep dying and coming back in a way that ruins the RP atmosphere, I'll just ignore them and refuse to fight them anymore.
I tend to favor 1 death most of the time, but that's a personal choice I don't hold anyone else to.
I actually created a "generic" character to represent a whole squadron of Liberty fighters, the idea being that if that pilot dies, the respawned pilot would represent someone else of the same squadron. The reason for this is exactly what Dab described... it makes large fights more interesting. I have no problem taking a fighter against a capship, but it's a lot more fun for everyone if I can keep coming back even after I inevitably get shot down quickly.
Three death rule - DBoy1612 - 04-13-2007
' Wrote:I say 2-3 for fighters 1 for caps. Basically for the reasons given by others above.
But there are also reasons not already expressed. When capships in campaign fight, there are always alot of fighters. One MP there simply are not enough players for 4 fighters per capship that the SP goes for. Having 2-3 deaths for each fighter simulates those extras fighters we cannot simulate ourselves completely.
It wouldn't simulate reinforcements. Reinforcements are simulated by.. Reinforcements. If a faction needs them or wants them it should be up to them to get them, not given to them by server rules.
Now for my 3-death rule for all case, it won't obsolete fighters, as Caylith said. Also, it prolongs battles. Now I see people complaining about battles being long.. They're what, 1 hour at most? If you don't like fighting, don't be in a corp that fights all the time. I've seen people in SA that complain about having to fight all the time. What do they expect, join a military and spend their time chatting up the pirates instead of fighting them?
Personally I see the battles in FL to be the best part of the game (RP is the best part of the mod and server, not game, though I like RP more than the pvp aspect). As long as the pvp is justified by RP, than it should be fine. It should be fun.
Now some of you might complain that you don't like the battles so you don't want them to be longer, than I pose the question.. Why are you fighting in the first place?
I think it should be a compromise. 3 deaths for fighters, 1 for capships, no character switching after death or ones battle begins and your involved in it. You can only char switch if you are outside of the battle area (no one chasing you or fighting you) and have NOT died in your capship OR fighter. Same rule for fighter is because people would die twice in their fighter, then bring a capship. Once you have died once, your stuck with the ship your in.
Though personally I think char switching should be prohibited completely if you have already entered the fight. Find out what you need before you enter, not after.
I agree 100% on that one. That sounds perfect:D
Three death rule - Dab - 04-13-2007
Wobbly the entire thing you just posted doesn't fit at all.
Level 30 rules have absolutely NOTHING to do with 3 death rules. Level 30 means if your below it your safe. Being in the Bretonia-Kusari war has no effect on that. Everything you just said is incorrect AND has nothing to do with this issue..
Three death rule - TankTarget - 04-13-2007
Well I am with Mal on this, one death for everything except MAYBE fighters. Once I kill that stupid BS I want it GONE...I don't wanna kill it twice. Korrd and I had that problem during the largest engagement of the HF/SA war. Four BS, 2 Cruisers, 1 frigate and 3 fighters!. We killed two Bs and severely damaged another whilist DBoy knocked out their fighters. And the enemy caps came right back....dragging it on further.
However realisitcally fighter respawn is not cheap, well I say for fighter only engagments it should be one death that's it. But for fighters in a battlegroup engaging another the fighters should have at least 2 deaths because in battlegroups there are carrier ships that deploy many fighters the ratio of caps to fighters should be something like this
10/1 for every BS in a proper battlegroup there should be ten fighters but that'll never happen because there would not be enough space on the server for a battle of that size. However! There should always be more fighters than caps regardless of your faction status.
Maybe to counteract all of this we make actual server rules regarding the purchase of caps making an RP story required to be posted on the forums for each capital ship purchased and special Admin permission to get it. And make them sold on a special admin base that only they can give you permission to get. So that people can not go off on a whim and buy a BS. We should have to get permission to get any cap period except maybe a gunboat.
Three death rule - Exile - 04-13-2007
What about this:
When you die, regardless of your ship, you have to move back to your faction's nearest base, and launch again.
That way it will look like annother ship got launched.
Sure, it could be a long hike for some people, but it did work pretty good back in the day's when the oldBSG used it.
Three death rule - Fellow Hoodlum - 04-13-2007
Been out of the loop for a while, seems things have not moved on much ... Caylith is on the right track with
the RP suffering with discussion beforehand, pretty silly if you are just about to shoot the crap out of each
other.
The Capships, since I played last, have had a change of weapon stats making them the total 'own all' craft of
the mod. That discussion will come up somewhere else. The fighters now are pretty useless in all aspects against anything bigger than another fighter.
So capships with one death and fighters with three seems reasonable. Hard to get a huge wing of fighters into
the game at anytime for any faction, so three fighters acting as nine would be realistic, if you are lucky enough to be be able to dock close to the battle.
If not, think we will be seeing the demise of the fighter for any form of combat in this mod very soon.
Hoodlum