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+--- Thread: doesnt seem quite fair... (/showthread.php?tid=3795)
doesnt seem quite fair... - Archelon - 09-10-2007
' Wrote:My question is why did the BHG-tagged ship attack you in the first place? Junkers aren't technically pirates, they just happen to favor the pirates more than the lawful groups. They don't have hostile relations with the BHG either.
If he attacked simply because junkers appear red on his screen, he had better rethink his actions in the future.
See rule 7.1 that I quoted earlier. You've gotta go by the mounted ID not the color showing up in the radar.
doesnt seem quite fair... - Dopamino - 09-10-2007
i couldn't risk it. there was 3 das wildes flying around plus this guy attacking me. i had 4 jades in my hold that i didnt feel like losing.
doesnt seem quite fair... - Unit-sk855 - 09-10-2007
Quote:My question is why did the BHG-tagged ship attack you in the first place? Junkers aren't technically pirates, they just happen to favor the pirates more than the lawful groups. They don't have hostile relations with the BHG either.
If he attacked simply because junkers appear red on his screen, he had better rethink his actions in the future.
Why dont you tell this to the Junker that was telling the traders on the diamond run to drop their cargo, while flying the really nice taiden freighter with enouph guns to back up his pirating? And to make it worse, he was doing it right ouside a planet. Police NPC's flying around and all.
Its a technicality, and technicality's get abused faster than oh i could put in so many funny endings but i wont... faster than alchohol on a friday night seems safe enough.
Technically junkers are pirates i guess... Not in my opinion, but whatever. Even if he is a pirate, he was shooting Wilds, BHG enemies! Heck, Wild are everyones enemy, if the bhg had ANY interaction in this he should have helped, what we have here is a pvpwhore who used a technicality to try for an easy kill with npc assistance. I hate when people scan to see if they can shoot or not. Horrible people they are, and ones that dont know what roleplaying is.
The last server that i partook of had a lovely rule that was bassically "Dishonorable, Unsportsmanlike, Unroleplayed, or cheap tactics, abuse of sytems, and generally being an jerk will get you banned." Players doing such as this tactic would be warned to stop, then sanctioned if it persisted up untill they were banned. Posts such as this were added to a list of "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" and posted for all to see. Laming was the term, and lame gameplay was removed from the game.
Another example is sitting outside a moring fixture untill your battleships shield is about to go down and fighting up untill this point. then as SOON as it goes down hit f3 and BAM dock. Then undock with a full shield and hammer away while moving back up to 0 from the fixture and do it again.
doesnt seem quite fair... - Jinx - 09-10-2007
so - a faction that is neutral ( or in that case hasn t got any dealings with another faction, like BHG to junkers ) but does appear red would stilll show certain troubles in the past. not in between the factions as large - but rather a personal thing. the factions remain neutral allright, but that particular BHG or junker might have had too many battles with the other side and thus appear hostile. ( nothing wrong with that at this point, roleplaywise )
another aspect is. is it roleplaywise to actually go for each other in the first place? - BHG is a highly organized group, not a bunch of troubleseekers. they don t act cause they "hate" another faction, but cause they get payed for it. they are a lawful group - but enforce the law on a rather - lets say.. doubious way, unlike police LPI liberty for example, which is a private organizsation, but not after profit.
would a BHG attack a junker just cause its there? - why should he - no money involved, unless there s a bounty on that particular junkers head. i d consider is highly UNPROFESSIONAL.
junkers on the other hand seek riches where others don t expect them, - namely in junkfields. the point of that is. they seek loot with little to no resistance. ( junk can hardly fight back ) - they might be unlawful, but they are no murderers. its the same distiction like a criminal that would take a hostage and kill for gain and one that is a thief but tries to avoid a confrontation with the authority AT ALL COST.
so - would a junker lurk at a jump hole / dock to ambush and ask for tax? - i don t think so, their best weapon is their tractor beam along with good sensorts and eyesight to spot valuable stuff thats laying around. ( transports are rarely laying around - unless they are abandoned )
thats my interpretation why those 2 factions are not hostile towards each other by default. now back to the topic of someone of a neutral faction ( or rather ignored faction ) being red. well - it might be a bit like homeless ppl ( junkers - sorry for that comparission ) and police ( BHG ). the junkers might remain rather "invisible" to an organisation like BHG - untill - well they proved to be a threat - which is .. killed one of them too much.
so in my opinion - it does make a roleplaying sense to go by the con colour, (too). regard the initial ID carried in the first place as a marking stone - but also keep the con faction in mind.
example:
me being a zoner - we do not have any enemies. so what do i expect when i move into a major pirates home system? - basicly - i expect them to : a.) tell me to remove my ass out of their home system - just like the zoner guards would prolly tell THEM to do when they entered omicron 54... or b.) to charge a heavy fee for travelling through their system..... or c.) to tell me they would attack if i denied a or b. thats sort of what neutral means to me - i m not attacked on sight - but it doesn t make me invulnerable. now if i appear RED to them - i CAN expect them to attack on sight! - cause it means - i gave a damn about the faction in my past ( i m red to outcasts ) and took down a few too many of them or their allies.
i m not really what you d call neutral anymore - uh?
does the same work for corsairs, too? - no
zoners are neutral to corsairs as they are to outcasts - but the basis is different - roleplaywise. while the zoners just don t have much contact to outcasts, they basicly ignore each other. ( outcasts focus rather on corsairs than on those nasty zoners that run freeports ) corairs happen not to ignore zoners though. it is said they the zoners are tolerated there not cause the corsairs love them so much - but cause they fear retrubution. the zoners are a passive - but not to be underestimated faction. hard to believe they would actually team up. but they provide the omicron systems with valuable stuff, too and offer a place to dock to everyone.
to cut it short - when i move through corsair space - i would not expect them to charge a tax or leave their system, cause the corsairs are a lot closer to zoners - still neutral. they sit around even on freeport 15 in omicron 54 - and their allies are the zoners allies, too ( the order ). zoners NPCs move freely amoung corsair NPCs ( they don t in omicron alpha in outcast space )
result:
its roleplay - and not "only" con colour and ID tag. i suggest to read up the faction you re trying to imipersonate at that moment and at least make up your mind whats the basic idea behind the faction. (liberty rogues, rather the mindless criminal//lane hackers, high tech freaks with a habit of taking down TRANSPORTS but not cap ships or fighters//Gaians, political terrorists that use crime rather to finance their attitude//bundschuh, political terrorists that would hardly go against anyone else but rheinland - etc etc etc)
ps.: sorry thats been a long post - lol
pps.: original post was about unfairness of that battle. killing NPCs to loot up batteries and bots. if those NPCs are kill on sight for the one killing - no problem. regard them just the same like a player ship; doesn t matter to me what purpose they are put to ( that is letting the fighter loot ) - what i find doubtful is - to run a battleship to assist one fighter. - who in their right mind would do that - considering it would costs a fortune to do that. ( roleplaywise ) - only if the battleship "happens" to go that way anyway and just ... stumbled into a scene where an ally was fighting an enemy.
doesnt seem quite fair... - Unit-sk855 - 09-10-2007
The color is only there because it uses freelancers system client side, its not doing calculations of the person you are targeting's faction list. Only yours, if someone is a bhg and you are hostile to them, the player that is a bhg will show up as hostile to you.
Also, its not a roleplay matter, its a game mechanics matter. The BS is not threatened by the fighter, because the fighter has to focus on the player and npc fighters attacking him, so the bs can sit and shoot the npcs all day long, giving an unlimited ammount of bats and bots for the fighter to grab. the npcs pose no threat to the battleship, and they dont fly inteligently so they are easy to shoot down. The problem then comes when the player on the other end of this has to fight game mechanics before he can fight the enemy. Thats why its a cheap tactic, he was fighting the game instead of playing it.
doesnt seem quite fair... - Dopamino - 09-10-2007
' Wrote:so - a faction that is neutral ( or in that case hasn t got any dealings with another faction, like BHG to junkers ) but does appear red would stilll show certain troubles in the past. not in between the factions as large - but rather a personal thing. the factions remain neutral allright, but that particular BHG or junker might have had too many battles with the other side and thus appear hostile. ( nothing wrong with that at this point, roleplaywise )
another aspect is. is it roleplaywise to actually go for each other in the first place? - BHG is a highly organized group, not a bunch of troubleseekers. they don t act cause they "hate" another faction, but cause they get payed for it. they are a lawful group - but enforce the law on a rather - lets say.. doubious way, unlike police LPI liberty for example, which is a private organizsation, but not after profit.
would a BHG attack a junker just cause its there? - why should he - no money involved, unless there s a bounty on that particular junkers head. i d consider is highly UNPROFESSIONAL.
junkers on the other hand seek riches where others don t expect them, - namely in junkfields. the point of that is. they seek loot with little to no resistance. ( junk can hardly fight back ) - they might be unlawful, but they are no murderers. its the same distiction like a criminal that would take a hostage and kill for gain and one that is a thief but tries to avoid a confrontation with the authority AT ALL COST.
so - would a junker lurk at a jump hole / dock to ambush and ask for tax? - i don t think so, their best weapon is their tractor beam along with good sensorts and eyesight to spot valuable stuff thats laying around. ( transports are rarely laying around - unless they are abandoned )
thats my interpretation why those 2 factions are not hostile towards each other by default. now back to the topic of someone of a neutral faction ( or rather ignored faction ) being red. well - it might be a bit like homeless ppl ( junkers - sorry for that comparission ) and police ( BHG ). the junkers might remain rather "invisible" to an organisation like BHG - untill - well they proved to be a threat - which is .. killed one of them too much.
so in my opinion - it does make a roleplaying sense to go by the con colour, (too). regard the initial ID carried in the first place as a marking stone - but also keep the con faction in mind.
example:
me being a zoner - we do not have any enemies. so what do i expect when i move into a major pirates home system? - basicly - i expect them to : a.) tell me to remove my ass out of their home system - just like the zoner guards would prolly tell THEM to do when they entered omicron 54... or b.) to charge a heavy fee for travelling through their system..... or c.) to tell me they would attack if i denied a or b. thats sort of what neutral means to me - i m not attacked on sight - but it doesn t make me invulnerable. now if i appear RED to them - i CAN expect them to attack on sight! - cause it means - i gave a damn about the faction in my past ( i m red to outcasts ) and took down a few too many of them or their allies.
i m not really what you d call neutral anymore - uh?
does the same work for corsairs, too? - no
zoners are neutral to corsairs as they are to outcasts - but the basis is different - roleplaywise. while the zoners just don t have much contact to outcasts, they basicly ignore each other. ( outcasts focus rather on corsairs than on those nasty zoners that run freeports ) corairs happen not to ignore zoners though. it is said they the zoners are tolerated there not cause the corsairs love them so much - but cause they fear retrubution. the zoners are a passive - but not to be underestimated faction. hard to believe they would actually team up. but they provide the omicron systems with valuable stuff, too and offer a place to dock to everyone.
to cut it short - when i move through corsair space - i would not expect them to charge a tax or leave their system, cause the corsairs are a lot closer to zoners - still neutral. they sit around even on freeport 15 in omicron 54 - and their allies are the zoners allies, too ( the order ). zoners NPCs move freely amoung corsair NPCs ( they don t in omicron alpha in outcast space )
result:
its roleplay - and not "only" con colour and ID tag. i suggest to read up the faction you re trying to imipersonate at that moment and at least make up your mind whats the basic idea behind the faction. (liberty rogues, rather the mindless criminal//lane hackers, high tech freaks with a habit of taking down TRANSPORTS but not cap ships or fighters//Gaians, political terrorists that use crime rather to finance their attitude//bundschuh, political terrorists that would hardly go against anyone else but rheinland - etc etc etc)
ps.: sorry thats been a long post - lol
pps.: original post was about unfairness of that battle. killing NPCs to loot up batteries and bots. if those NPCs are kill on sight for the one killing - no problem. regard them just the same like a player ship; doesn t matter to me what purpose they are put to ( that is letting the fighter loot ) - what i find doubtful is - to run a battleship to assist one fighter. - who in their right mind would do that - considering it would costs a fortune to do that. ( roleplaywise ) - only if the battleship "happens" to go that way anyway and just ... stumbled into a scene where an ally was fighting an enemy.
you have too much time:P.