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+--- Thread: What is the community vision for discovery? (/showthread.php?tid=42402)
What is the community vision for discovery? - masternerdguy - 06-22-2010
' Wrote:There isnt a 200 player limit in EVE, nor are there extreme imbalances in the equipment available to each faction. In an MMO, you dont have to worry about never having enough players on your side. This isnt an MMO, and we cannot expect to play by the same rules.
in eve i used to have to get up at 5am (on my summer vacation only dont worry) to do a POS defense against some peeps......
if peeps care about their group they will comit.
Also, we have less players than eve, eve usually has 55,000 online at any time. We get 190-200. Yes eve does have a slightly higher player density than us.
200/134 = 1.49 players per system
Remember that in EVE's conquerable region, 0.0, it has 75% of the game space but about 25% of the game population. So the 0.0 population is 13750. This is spread across about 1875 0.0 systems, giving them 7.1 people per system.
But THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM
because only a small number of our disco systems actually matter to each faction. Unless you want Junkers trying to conquer Omicron Theta, I see no issue.
What is the community vision for discovery? - pipsqueak - 06-22-2010
Its not the issue of density.
Imagine some faction riles up 30 of his friends to attack and conquer sirius. Now his team sonsists of 1/6th the population of the server. Its a scenario you will not see in eve.
What is the community vision for discovery? - masternerdguy - 06-22-2010
' Wrote:Its not the issue of density.
Imagine some faction riles up 30 of his friends to attack and conquer sirius. Now his team sonsists of 1/6th the population of the server. Its a scenario you will not see in eve.
ok but we have RP which eve doesnt in alliance warfare.
In roleplay, it is out of the question for say Hogosha to annihalate Rheinland. However, it is possible for two Junkers and Hogosha to wage a war and kill each other off.
What is the community vision for discovery? - Bear - 06-22-2010
Farewell useless plus one posts. Let's keep this thread on track shall we?
Bear
What is the community vision for discovery? - Jinx - 06-22-2010
idea 1 is good - IF we had a gamemaster ( and igiss is not a game master, he s not active enough for that - or appears not to be active enough in-game )
idea 2 only works when players learn to differ in-character roleplay and out-of-character ambitions.
the problem with option 1 is that it might appear undynamic, that playeractions, no matter how eventful and how epical have little to no impact on the whole. ( or in other words, a band of no-goods can fly up to a planet, start an orbital all-out-bombardement ... fly away for a coffee ... and nothing has happened to the planet whatsoever )
the problem with option 2 is that player have a very hard time reviewing actions and consequences from more than their own point of view ... or if they try to do, they often apply their own fuzzy logic to the situation. players also tend not to consider secondary consequences or long term developements.
and most of all, players hardly EVER take responsibilities. - seen with so many things - ( polls for example... serious polls being made about changes, a majority agrees with them, but when the things are introduced JUST LIKE THEY WERE DESCRIBED - the very same people start ranting ... and would never admit that it was them who wanted it, when it turns out to be unpopular... its always "the others" )
so as long as players are not willing to take responsibilities, a playerdriven story and progression is out of the question, cause if no one takes responsibilities, no one is in charge of fixing what might have been broken - but those that take pity and try to reduce the damage done ( sometimes under the gleeful laughter of those that caused the damage )
imo - the best thing for disco would be a team of gamemasters that :
- needs to be active, and with active i mean.... ingame... regularly, in touch with players ( not only factions )
- open minded and objective enough not to have become cynical ( like many veterans )
- creative - thats a tough one... not many people can think of and also organize exciting events or progressions... that is, cause most people fail to see things from other peoples point of view
- ever changing - while being a team, it also needs to be flexible, not like the admin team ( once an admin always an admin until one steps down or does a serious mistake ) maybe only a gamemaster for a single event or something - or only a gamemaster for a dedicated time.
- able to take critizism and deal with it. that is .... not being defensive when being critizised ( the more exclusive the club you re in, the more defensive one often is - see factions, the more public and open the faction, the more they re able to deal with critizism, same applies to subgroups and lobbies ) ... always reflect upon oneself.
- see more than just black and white. pvp often is black and white, roleplay is grey - cause it offers a lot more than kill or be killed - a lesson that might be carried to the players in general, too.
What is the community vision for discovery? - Dusty Lens - 06-22-2010
I think I want a mix of the two.
Like a 1.5.
Sometimes there's something that I want that the rules get in the way of. That's stupid and a major blow to server RP. We should have the freedom and responsibility to let me have the things that I want. This is an RP server afterall and RP should come before server rules.
But then a lot of other people want stuff that I think is a bad idea. No one wants to see lolwuts doing whatever they want without any governing. I mean, it doesn't even make any sense and they're always going to go for the best possible stuff without even talking to a bunch of people on skype to get favors from their friends. This is an RP server, some stuff doesn't make sense.
Unless it's stuff for me.
It's a thin line between me and you. Between RP and bull****.
What is the community vision for discovery? - rtdfoodie - 06-22-2010
I think players are happy with idea 1. Discovery is good, and any major changes you make, you will loose players, not gain any.
Plus, you can not make idea 2. automated. At least, it's not worth it. Would take too much time.
My idea for 1.5: I think I've seen a looong time ago a mod, where bases could be destroyed.
The story remains static, but players feel they can make a difference.
Pump up bases, make them regenerative, whatever, so only a concentrated RP-ed assault can take them out. Until the next server-restart. Or they respawn every 2 hours, I don't know. 2 problems whith this (imo): docked players, and 1 bored bomber pilot who keeps destroying bases. So you need to make them really strong.
This might make self appointed cap-ship captains more responsible, and they will not spend their time chasing lone fighters.
I see only a small part of the picture, but I think:
+ Gives roleplay and purpose to big shiny ships, even if they don't have an enemy and are bored, and are about to burn a lot of fuel on nothing.
+ Would speed up cap-ship market, which speeds up trading; they cost a lot.
+ If you pump up bases, cap ship patrols can be weakened, or removed.
- It's very not RP-like to destroy the same base 3rd time a day.
- Base-sitting, and fleeing from a fight to bases will increase. A lot.
+/- a lot more, I can not imagine, it's up to you to decide, either this is completely a bad idea or not.
Or just keep up the current event-based system, it's good as it is.
What is the community vision for discovery? - aerelm - 06-22-2010
Idea 2 is a really good one, but only in theory I'm afraid...
Sadly, Player Activity between Factions (When compared to the Lore) is not Balanced, if you enable a 'Dynamic' environment, be sure things will get out of hand in less than a week, and nothing will fit in the Lore again.
Let me give you a simple example: Remember KNF-GRN Event?
Lore-Wise, GRN had a massive fleet that was going to rip its way through the whole Kusari forces, to a point that Kusari would surrender and announce a seize-fire.
Now, What happened in the Event? KNF break through Taus, and Entered Gallia! And before they got beamed out, Their Capital Ships were 'Bombarding' the Planet which was meant to be Royal Forces Command Center in Gallic Borderworlds!
Or a much recent example, Order-BHG Event... Order is meant to be an small organization with limited resources, who put all they have in fighting the nomads, and until recently, they couldn't even build their ships without the help of their Corsair friends, and on the other hand, the Core is a Private Military with Unlimited Resources, and was meant to crash the Order so hard that when Nomads come in Order wouldn't be much of a force to defend themselves... And yet, What happened in the Event? Dozens of Osirises and Gebs were chainfiring anything that came in range. Why? Because it was the Players enjoying their freedom, not the Lore.
Although, having 'Strict' environment is not a good idea either. I agree that playing the same thing over and over until a newer version of the Mod comes out is not as interesting as it could be. So, Thats why I suggest something closer to 1.25, Not even 1.5!
What if, We get the ability to change ingame environment (Base ownership, Factions diplomacy, etc.) but not with the overall activity of the whole faction. But through series of pre-planned events with agreement and approval of Official Factions of Both sides?
This way, Corsair Indies can't gather 50 Legates and go conquer the whole Rheinland when all the [RM] and [RHA] players are asleep, so when they wake up and undock from New Berlin they suddenly see "WTF The Planet is shootin at me!!!" But, if Brotherhood decides to conquer Rheinland -And of course, the Military agrees with this move ooRPly- they set up an Event, where 50 Corsair Legates invade Rheinland and kill anything on their way. If they get to New Berlin it would be the new capital of Corsairs Nation! (Although its a really 'lolwuttish' example, just to show what I mean)
P.S: masternerdguy, Although I respect your opinion, but seeing you're arguing with every single person that posts here, to prove You are right and others are wrong is getting a bit silly. I believe you've posted enough, Please keep rest of your Opinions to yourself. I, for one, Don't like to play an Eve-Like Discovery, and you are not the one to tell me I'm wrong, because I'm not. I just have a 'Different Point of view'.
What is the community vision for discovery? - Friday - 06-22-2010
I would put it to the community that one of the roles/responsibilities of a Faction Leader is to be a Game Master for their faction - and be part of a team that contributes to an overall story.
Factions offering RP directions need to be able to account for the RP of their enemies as well as their allies. Faction Leaders need to be flexible - and be able to offer a number of possible RP scenarios.
The role of an administrator(s) should be to guide that team:
- Vetoing concepts that are plainly absurd or unable to be accommodated by the overall story.
- Offering qualified support of ideas put forward by the Faction Leaders (ie: ideas that could fit in with the story, with some modification).
What is the community vision for discovery? - Stoat - 06-22-2010
Has to be a combination of 1 and 2. If we go all 2, then it'd just be chaos, which would be bad, imo.
Discovery thrives because of its diversity. A lot of that diversity comes from the players. There needs to be interaction and cooperation between the devs and the players, and a lot of compromise.