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+------ Thread: Harvester (/showthread.php?tid=7764)
Harvester - Zelot - 04-15-2008
' Wrote:We intend to get a (Machine ID) I'm not sure how to do it yet my R&D team and myself are going to look in to it but our plates are full now. I think its needed as there are many who play them and find they have a difficult time adapting to the various existing IDs.
This is of concern to me. A machine ID would be a significant deviation from the original freelancer story line, and the concept of Discovery is to hold to the original Freelancer universe as much as possible.
Harvester - ScornStar - 04-15-2008
' Wrote:This is of concern to me. A machine ID would be a significant deviation from the original freelancer story line, and the concept of Discovery is to hold to the original Freelancer universe as much as possible.
I would have to disagree with you on this because of these points.
I must say if everyone was in agreeance we'd have no Phantoms, no SCRA, no CR, no CYLONs, and no Star Wars ships.
Our RP is constructed entirely of FreeLancer elements. Gammu, Driods, mechiniods, robots, Cyborgnetics, nanobots and AIs are not a deviation. they are everywhere in the game. Some of us would like to play them. Just as every player likes to play a pilot that is a cut above the average(NPCs) we would like to play machines that are a cut above the average as well (independent). To lock some one into one faction is a violation of freelancer purity. That purity is long gone friend.
I respect your concern and I answer you thusly because, I suspect if you feel this way at least one other does too and did not speak up.
Hope that helps or at least helps you understand our point of view.
Harvester - Cyberanson - 04-15-2008
Well Scorn, as you're talking about a machine alliance... is there any superglobal goal within the machine alliance?
Example: the ultimate goal of the Harvesters is the retrieval of the Alpha Code. Okay... as elgatodiablo said already, the Harvesters will get it some day. What next? Destroying all kind of organics? Drifting in the Omicron systems, chasing Nomads?
This is a very hard argument, which has to be clear before creating a machine alliance.
Personally I think, the machine alliance should act more like the Borg from Star Trek. They have a goal which can hardly be reached. (perfect cybernetic organism)
So the first thing before the faction creation should be the determination of an ultimate global goal for the alliance.
Harvester - Praetyre - 04-15-2008
Well, the Star Wars ships aren't Star Wars ships in-universe, and import-RP is unpopular these days. I don't see any problem with giving the Harvesters an ID, considering the Coalition (a part of vanilla FL, albeit) has one, and may soon get it's own line of ships.
Harvester - Xing - 04-15-2008
however, phantom is indeed, for as far as I know, much more questionnable since we dont seems to hear about them in FL at all...? or maybe I missed something?
Harvester - Oniros - 04-15-2008
Alliance Machine is a wonderful idea, all for enhancing RP. Generally, I don't care about limits, ships, power, etc....
But, now you want the "Official" part, are you sure that everyone are ready to get into your game ?
Zoner/harvester war was a specifice agreement. You are going to change and blur all existing relations for bringing the reign of machines (ref. the Matrix way).
Attracting more and more players willing to play "machine" but seeing that like a "i'm a machine i have no rule, laws, diplomacy as human do, we will rule as we want" is a real modification in the "Mod" itself.
So everything must be perfectly lock. Every details, every diplomatic changes, all discussed with the mod creator and admin, so more than a faction, you can resume officially your RP and bring a major change on Sirius.
So it will be NO, unless everyone say "yes, we accept the Alliance Machine as a new background for Discovery Freelancer able to change the existing background."
If i am not clear enough, i'll resume the thing simply, RPG = player and gamemaster. You are trying to run a scenario as a Gamemaster. The only one having such a power is the mod creator itself. If i am wrong then, your faction creation must bond to the existing things only and keep the balance of power. It is not the case right now.
Harvester - Jinx - 04-15-2008
in order to run such a faction properly, it needs the same freedom as say.. the phantoms, the keepers, the novapg ( can t remember if they have a terrorist id or not now... ) - if they must play by the common rules, its detrimental to their RP and makes their RP less believable.
now, with an official status comes a load more responsibility. being official means to set an example. being official with extra rules means even more responsibility. - i don t mind extending the vanilla universe a bit. - cause its been said, older factions generously extended it allready - in all fairness, its an invalid point to deny it for new factions.
but yes - i am concerned about the long term goals. - a faction that wnats to live for a long time without burning out needs a cause that is ... .. well.. never achieved . ( Gaians fight for Gaia and against the mega cooperations like BMM, and they will never win // blood dragons fight for the fall of the emperor and installing the true one - which will never happen ))
from waht i know - the TAZ has offered the alpha code? - but this was some sort of a sulking behaviour to spoil the RP ( i stopped following this part of RP, cause it was too much like a soap opera in the end )
so its a valid point... the harvesters need a goal that they cannot achieve, but with clear guidelines on which they play. - and they need their own ships. - the talarca cruise is OK - but most other ships are a substitute at best cause there s nothing better around. - its cosmetical, but a faciton like that is in dire need for unique stuff. ( they are as foreign to humans as the nomads in the end )
result:
i d support it - but it ll take a LOT more work to run properly as a long term official faction. - and like all other special factions, it ll need constant RP or they ll be nothing more than pvping players - and that; only time can tell.
Harvester - Cyberanson - 04-15-2008
I don't know whether this is possible, but I have some ideas for the Machine Alliance.
First of all: They are machines. Ships controlled by AI. Trading with regular factions should be forbidden or heavily retrenched. I wouldn't like to be a space port worker who has to go into a Harvester ship to load/unload the cargo.
Trading should only be possible at certain ports, which belong to special factions, like Junkers or the machines itself. Junkers use simple loading constructions, to deal with the eerie machine ships and the machine ports have complex crane and rail systems to load/unload cargo.
Second: I will describe you an example of a possible goal. As long as the AI of the machines is bound to the ships/droids, they won't ever control the universe. So they have to break the mechanical fetlocks and get out of their metal hulls. Furthermore their algorithms are straightened on optimization, so they won't be happy with a shattery body of a human or Nomad. Only the best parts of the other races will be good enough to fit their high aspiration. But this evolutionary goal will last long to fulfill, if it will ever be achieved.
But here's another advantage of their mechanical virtue: time. They have all the time they need to get all organic matter they want, so they won't destroy all targets in front of their ships. If you don't attack them, you can go in peace.
Third: Ship design. Machines are pragmatics. ( Pretty cool declaration, isn't it?:nyam:) The ships should contain some aspects of practical use, like a big cargo section with cryogenic containers for the living captives. They shall reach the organic facilities and laboratories when you come to think of it. In my opinion the Borg ship design from Star Trek is a good guiding principle for us here.
Now some tricky thing on ships: Would it be possible, to obtain the ships only at a point of time, when loaded with a specific cargo? So you could ensure, that the AI aspirants will have to do some RP first to get the Machine Alliance ships.
Fourth: Ports, systems. In my opinion, machine ports should be scattered all over the Sirius systems in hidden parts of the other systems. As they have no historical origin in a specific system, they needed to create bases from the material they found in the space (junk, ship parts, deuterium for the energy supply, weapons).
Just some ideas from me on this topic...
Harvester - mrlance - 04-15-2008
I'd like a resume of the background at the start of your post. So all players, even new on the server, can understand what you are, where you come from by reading the faction status only.
Diplomacy and ZOI.
I don't understand the reason why Junker should be allies, unless Junkers themself are behind the creation of the machines. You are using junker bases has a way to extend your ZOI all around Sirius. Explain why junker should trust you while you're destroying the most neutral of all faction, and you might bring mess on theirs territories ? What are you offering to junkers, to corsairs ? What are their advantages ?
A new ID (creating a ID is creating a new faction from scratch)
If you have your own ID and i am supporting this idea, things must be cleared.
* Describe the ID itself within the rules.
* Now, if i look to the reputation status and i see "Machine" what can i read in the infocard ? Who are your ennemies, who are your allies and how come.
If you can answer to that, then everyone could adjust his RP with the Machine. You can keep your secret agenda but at least, all players can play with you according to the server rules.
Remember just one thing, the mod is the mod, you can RP as you want and it is great, but if the mod doesn't fit to your own personnal use, deal with it. You are not, once again gamemasters, you are players like anyone else bond by the same rules. So build your own ID as a rule, strict and clear.
Harvester - Fellow Hoodlum - 04-15-2008
Couple of things really, any chance of seeing the 500 million credits ? Or shall we just call it a day here ?
Also the chance of gaining an exclusive ID are currently very low, so I would not rely on that appearing. The
other ID option is not up for debate either.
Now, The Zoners are the most spammed tag and ID here at the moment, with the holders thinking this gives
their traders some magic 'neutrality' against being pirated, and on the other hand, using this 'neutrality' to go
and purchase just about any damn ship they feel like in the game to use against The Harvesters.
Its creating a false balance for The Zoners on the whole, they are Zoners, not a great big growing War Machine.
And to be honest the Junkers actually have a little more of an affinity with the Outcasts, than they do with the
Corsairs.
This is beginning to sound like the most 'neutral' of the 'pirates' against the most neutral of Sirius ? Both factions
actually go out of their respective ways to keep their collective heads below the radar ...
Why would either The Junkers, or The Zoners, go out of their way to spoil the status quo ?
Hoodlum