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+---- Thread: Faction as a property (/showthread.php?tid=82024)
Faction as a property - Snak6 - 06-13-2012
It is great to see some insightful and civil discussion completly on topic. Most appreciated. What I am still interested in, is seeing consistency in rules in written form. As there can always happen similar controversary to CR, Omicroners and stuff, where person on people in charge of faction announces its disbandment, while its playerbase might not want that.
Faction as a property - SparkyRailgun - 06-13-2012
I don't see anything wrong with having a single leader and a 2ic.
It worked for me in Ageira| for a long time, and it's worked for Echo an even longer time (and yes thankyou I am proud of my choice for 2ic).
As long as there is a 2ic the torch can always be passed down. Granted Ageira| was never a large faction, so just up and saying 'it's over' would not displace many people.
However, I always operated under the rule that if it did come to wanting to disband the faction, I would put it to the members and ask for a new leader. If noone steps up to the plate and the 2ic is of the same opinion as me, then the faction gets disbanded. If someone steps up, then they get faction leadership... Simple as that.
Dunno if Echo feels the same, but I imagine he would.
Faction as a property - Coin - 06-13-2012
Two separate issues here folks: one is that there needs to be a person to carry the can if the whole faction gets jailed for, idk, leaving ships logged in space to boost activity levels.
the other is 'what if the faction leader wants to quit/his approval rating has dropped?'
if the leader wants to quit and declares the faction dead in the water and the rest of the faction agrees (like osc was so declared), thats one thing.
but to try to burn down the kindergarten when the time has come for you to leave, is quite rightly, superseded when the 2i/c wants to carry the torch.
I was involved in a 'coup' of sorts: The leader had been awol for 3? 4? weeks, and everyone was drifting off to other things. I stepped up to the plate and wrote a nice post about how i was taking over the faction, cos the high command had evaporated. Eventually (two full months later) the old faction leader got back to me and asked if i thought the faction belonged to me. I replied that i felt that i belonged to the faction, and that his absence was detrimental to the faction.
He said 'but this is my faction'
'but XXXX started it, not you, so it can't be yours; you didnt start it, and you've not lead it in two months'
'But its still mine'
'then lead it'
'Im too busy, RL stuff'
'Then i'll keep your seat warm for you'
'oh... okay then'
Four years later, I've still not heard from him. The faction is dead in the water, a long time ago, but the members of said faction are still skype-buddies.
moral of story? a coup can be done if its for the benefit of the faction. If the coup is for the benefit of the new leader, then it creates friction and bad-feelings, and they won't wash out.
Faction as a property - Dashiell - 06-13-2012
I don't see a faction as property of a specific person. there's just the poor schmuck who runs the things but imho, doesnt 'own' anything. The faction's there for its players, not for its leader to gloat and rule over like his personal plaything.
faction = property of its collective players, if you will.
Faction as a property - Silver - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:I don't see a faction as property of a specific person. there's just the poor schmuck who runs the things but imho, doesnt 'own' anything. The faction's there for its players, not for its leader to gloat and rule over like his personal plaything.
faction = property of its collective players, if you will.
Dash said it all.
*Burps*
~K.
*Burps*
~K.
Faction as a property - Agmen of Eladesor - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:I don't see a faction as property of a specific person. there's just the poor schmuck who runs the things but imho, doesnt 'own' anything. The faction's there for its players, not for its leader to gloat and rule over like his personal plaything.
faction = property of its collective players, if you will.
Does that mean you're really not all my slaves to do my bidding as I see fit? Darn...
:P
The Bounty Hunters Guild has been an odd case. Athenian started the S/D, and somehow or other I ended up as the 2ic of the S/D even though Prowler and some of the other guys started before I did. Then we had the faction merger after the DW vanished into space between the S/D and the Core, and thus was formed the BHG|, BHG|Core, and our transport group, APM.
Then Athenian had RL issues and I stepped up to keep things going. We put his (characters) head in a jar similar to what you see on Futurama in case he ever decided to come back - and that was years ago. Since then we intended to split the factions back apart, and then decided not to do so. I'm not as active in the faction as I'd like to be, but real life does cause issues like that.
Fortunately, we have two talented, intelligent, and reasonably capable people that can handle the day to day stuff for both the BHG|, which are the in-house hunters, and the BHG|Core, which is NOT the in-house hunters (and is mostly the group that wants to control .... well, that'd be telling, wouldn't it?).
Faction as a property - Daedric - 06-13-2012
A faction cannot be the property of a single person. Why? Without the other people the faction isn't a faction. OSI is ran by council with Stygian and myself having a stronger say in things than the other leaders and Stygian having the final say. Council leadership - regardless of actual role play leadership - seems to benefit the faction far more than a single person.
Sorry, snak3, but I have to agree with Zelot. First thought through my mind when I saw this thread was that you were merely gunning for Kishiro due to the fact you brought the issue of their official status up when it was really none of your business. Also has to do with your history here and the fact you hide behind alias accounts every few months.
Though, I to would like to know why Kishiro got this treatment when the members of both the Omicroners and the Colonial Republic didn't want their respective factions disbanded.
Not that I liked the leaders of the Omicroners, but I don't think its membership (those who are now the Phoenix) deserved having all their work thrown away because Jinx (who was only a member of that faction since it renamed) and Lou decided they didn't want to play Disco anymore. Colonial Republic? Not sure its members deserved that either.
Though, both factions had history (unlike Kishiro). =CR= had a fair number of sanctions on its record and had a leader that on more than one occasion broke the rules himself and didn't care. Omicroners were the reformed ZTC after the admins decided to give them their official status back; after their members ragequit and gave their status up. Those might have been reasons in those two factions not receiving the same treatment as the Kishiro group did.
Faction as a property - Tunicle - 06-13-2012
' Wrote:I don't see a faction as property of a specific person. there's just the poor schmuck who runs the things but imho, doesnt 'own' anything. The faction's there for its players, not for its leader to gloat and rule over like his personal plaything.
faction = property of its collective players, if you will.
Pretty much it.
Faction as a property - ProwlerPC - 06-13-2012
I'm not posting in green on this one as I address Daedric with my opinion since I wasn't an admin when those were disbanded. For some reason my mind keeps telling me the Omicroner going down was a bigger story then that. I do recall them asking GMG| if we'd still let them use the GMG ships they had as Omicroner which we approved. Their tag changed and all but later I recall them deciding to gather together and renew Omicroners but if I'm correct there was an appearance of a general dissolution of the group.
=CR= disbandment I had issue with. If they hadn't achieved their ID and the faction made into NPC faction the impact probably wouldn't have mattered. Once their creative stuff is written into the game it's now the games creative stuff and they are an NPC faction (while of course the player faction is still the player faction) and their RP can be used by others as it is now part of Disco lore. I recall =CR= members objecting to the declaration of the leader and I felt one of em shoulda stepped up to the plate. Keep in mind it's not up to the admins to decide who to step up to the plate with the backing of a membership. If they were prevented at the time from willfully (if willfull) keeping =CR= going then I feel that example makes it all more poignant why a single person (although makes the commands) doesn't entirely own the faction. Disco has had it's share of faction leader's rage quitting in a way that terrorizes the faction they led. It's been the main reason why I wouldn't give faction leaders moderator privileges to the faction sub-forums. We will end up with more then faction's losing their banks but also having all their lore deleted when an angry leader has decided he's had enough.
again normal colour print as it's the logic that forms my opinion and vote on the subject.
Faction as a property - Soul Reaper - 06-14-2012
ooh..decide to surf on the forums for a sec and found something I can post in, yay.
@Prowler
About the =CR=, the leader didn't really own the faction (talking about inner-faction stuff here, not official), decisions were made by the high command, obviously. The HC simply gave their opinions and the leader had the final say in matters. Of course it wasn't just ''giving opinions'', all HC members held power, mainly the respect of the regular members, this gave them some sway over the leader.
Anyway, just to clarify, CR's disbandment was decided by the HC by vote. As to give some detail to your question, I myself as an HC member had offered taking leadership(with plans to change the lore quite significantly) yet the rest of command simply wanted it disbanded (only 2 people, including me, were against the disband) and that's what happened.
Since officially the leader owns the faction, the HC voted and the leader officially disbanded.
Am I ok with this? No, definitely not. A single person should not have official ''ownership'' of a faction that has real lore and history behind it.