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+--- Thread: POBs not working out (/showthread.php?tid=92609)
RE: POBs not working out - Xelon - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 07:13 AM)Coin Wrote: -snip-
KC: this is a lawful-friendly base, and my trader skips past it happily. However, my corsair char has to jump around like an epileptic flea if i'm anywhere near it. unlike the base in Om3, near the gate with Om7, KC is a little too close to the jumpgate. It should be the same distance away as glasgow border station.
Why? becos pirates are the raison d'etre of police. if there are no criminals, all the policemen lose their jobs.
-snip-
Right so why don't you just use JH like you are supposed to do in the first place?
Because it's easier and faster, thats the short version of it.
We have Sair raids and Pirates in NL, they just use the JH, no harm done, it's even inRP, now how about that?
Another 2 cents on my side.
RE: POBs not working out - Jinx - 01-17-2013
PoBs are like guns - while it is true that the main responsibility is with the owner of them and not the PoB itself ... they do make it much easier to cause problems when they are rather freely available.
but whats the alternative. - being led by the hand for each little thing that can cause trouble? ( well, in terms of guns that probably a preferable option in RL )
in the disco enviroment - players are mainly responsible for what they do. - if they wish for more roleplay and less dumb pvp only, they must start with themselves - same with PoBs.
the problem in that case is that PoBs make it easier for the players who are disruptive and trollish to get their way - but it is up to the community to regulate it. - disco is not kindergarden - problems are expected to be recognized by the players themselves ... and also solved by them.
PoBs are a great opportunity for roleplay, interaction and "real" achievements for even smaller factions. if that opportunity was to be regulated too much by like admins or other "higher ups" - it would simply go away.
one last thing ... @ryoken: to say that "zero thought" went into PoBs is quite an insult. - PoBs had been discussed extensivly within the dev team, much more than many many other things. - but it is impossible to predict all the exploits human nature comes up with and the sheer will to harm other players gameplay.
even now - the benefits outweigh the problems they cause. and i am quite frankly at a loss why some factions are simply so reluctant to remove disruptive PoBs that really affect their reputation in a negative way inRP.
RE: POBs not working out - lw'nafh - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 09:24 AM)Jinx Wrote: (drivel)
in the disco enviroment - players are mainly responsible for what they do. - if they wish for more roleplay and less dumb pvp only, they must start with themselves - same with PoBs.
the problem in that case is that PoBs make it easier for the players who are disruptive and trollish to get their way - but it is up to the community to regulate it. - disco is not kindergarden - problems are expected to be recognized by the players themselves ... and also solved by them.
(drivel)
Attempting to weed through that wall of text, this is all that stood out. All it says to me is that you don't understand the dynamic of Discovery any more (and honestly I wonder if you ever did). Meaningful roleplay on this server is sparse. The vast majority is simply looking for an excuse and a fast route to blowing up someone else's ship and harvesting their seal tears. Not to mention that we have an entire staff of people that are meant to regulate broad aspects of the community yet they willingly ignore it when people obviously do things for the sake of making other people's lives difficult, as long as it's veiled in a shaky 'RP' frame. Chances are, said 'RP' was also discussed before hand and whatever outcome was made would've been one agreed upon preceding the ingame encounter(s)/forumlancer.
RE: POBs not working out - Coin - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 09:03 AM)Xelon Wrote:(01-17-2013, 07:13 AM)Coin Wrote: -snip-
KC: this is a lawful-friendly base, and my trader skips past it happily. However, my corsair char has to jump around like an epileptic flea if i'm anywhere near it. unlike the base in Om3, near the gate with Om7, KC is a little too close to the jumpgate. It should be the same distance away as glasgow border station.
Why? becos pirates are the raison d'etre of police. if there are no criminals, all the policemen lose their jobs.
-snip-
Right so why don't you just use JH like you are supposed to do in the first place?
Because it's easier and faster, thats the short version of it.
We have Sair raids and Pirates in NL, they just use the JH, no harm done, it's even inRP, now how about that?
Another 2 cents on my side.
go to new york, the colorado gate, there you will see plenty of xeno npcs.
go to new london, the leeds gate, there you will see plenty of corsair npcs.
should a pirate hang out there, they're merely following the normal behaviour of the npcs belonging to their faction.
the reason why you see pirates by the jump gates isnt because the gates are faster - they 're not, if you're coming from a different system - but you see pirates there so they can ambush traders.
placing KC there has diminished system activity - not your intention, i will allow - but definately the result.
oh, and this is aimed at everyone - Less hostility please. This is about how to sort out a major problem, not about taking your toys away. if one system becomes unplayable for one side of the trader-pirate-police equation, soon enough, it becomes unplayable for the othersides too. and then this spreads to more systems - and pretty soon, no-one is playing disco because some player bases were put in places where they HARMED SERVER GAMEPLAY.
Player bases are ships. players control them. If a player was shooting everything that was red, without warning - that would be a sanction.
why should it be any different for player bases?
RE: POBs not working out - Jinx - 01-17-2013
@kangathingy:
and that is what makes it sad. - you justify bad behaviour by saying that reality is bad behaviour. so your own behaviour is victim to your own self fulfilling prophecy instead of trying your own very best.
if everyones attitude was like the one you described - it is no wonder things may go downhill - while at the same time everyone complained that things go downhill.
but you may answer that question:
would you prefer much more restrictions that may assess if someone is capable/worthy of wielding greater power that affects other players? - or do you prefer the freedom to (mostly) do what you like - for the good and the bad of those you play with.
when you offer freedom, you will always get those that exploit it. - when you restrict them more, you may achieve a more homogenous enviroment at the cost of chances to evolve creativity.
just to comment on that before you may choose to reply or not. restrictive systems have been viewed as something that is holding players back. ( see closed factions ) ... the discussion is fairly old indeed. - battleships come to mind and how freely they are available ( or for that matter ... even VHF )
edit: i do however give you that ... maybe i am - as i may call it - a bit more idealistic than you are and not stuck in a downwards struggle regarding disco as a cesspool of bad behaviour and trolls. who knows - maybe you are right and you, the players, can really not deal with ingame problems yourself anymore and need to be led by the hand.
RE: POBs not working out - Xelon - 01-17-2013
@Coin:
I was not trying to sound hostile nor come over that way.
If I did in your eyes then I am sorry.
Right it's true that there isn't any piracy anymore at the NL-Cambridge Gate, this doesn't mean that activity diminished.
I myselfe used to camp the NL-Cambridge gate on my Sair while KC wasn't there.
Now I just shifted my pirating spot to the Southamton-Leeds JG lane in NL, or to the Norfolk-Omega 3 JG lane in Cambridge.
Both of them are good pirating spots, imo even better because I can see the BPA/BAF coming from 14k which gives me enough time to ninja out.
RE: POBs not working out - Duvelske - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 07:13 AM)Coin Wrote: solution two:
sensible and mature discussions leading to admin intervention of relocating the bases. This might have to be done by deleting the base and installing another slightly further away, and involve a bit of restocking, but this is a double advantage:
if the bases need restocking, this contributes to the activity.
if the bases are moved, this contributes to the activity
Why move the bases? Its quite easy i noticed it when trying on my own server, but i don't see the point of it. (max 10 min) IF the bases wich has these turrets are RP'ed well there is in my view nothing wrong with it. Also these bases the golden coin as the itabashi are in my view not badly rp'ed. i have never problems crossing em both. but well its how you can rep your chars too i think. So also its a small part of the problem wich is about yourselves. (if its not repninja'd red like maybe GMG for hogosha but am not sure about that.)
RE: POBs not working out - lw'nafh - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 09:58 AM)Jinx Wrote: @kangathingy:
and that is what makes it sad. - you justify bad behaviour by saying that reality is bad behaviour. so your own behaviour is victim to your own self fulfilling prophecy instead of trying your own very best.
if everyones attitude was like the one you described - it is no wonder things may go downhill - while at the same time everyone complained that things go downhill.
but you may answer that question:
would you prefer much more restrictions that may assess if someone is capable/worthy of wielding greater power that affects other players? - or do you prefer the freedom to (mostly) do what you like - for the good and the bad of those you play with.
when you offer freedom, you will always get those that exploit it. - when you restrict them more, you may achieve a more homogenous enviroment at the cost of chances to evolve creativity.
just to comment on that before you may choose to reply or not. restrictive systems have been viewed as something that is holding players back. ( see closed factions ) ... the discussion is fairly old indeed. - battleships come to mind and how freely they are available ( or for that matter ... even VHF )
edit: i do however give you that ... maybe i am - as i may call it - a bit more idealistic than you are and not stuck in a downwards struggle regarding disco as a cesspool of bad behaviour and trolls. who knows - maybe you are right and you, the players, can really not deal with ingame problems yourself anymore and need to be led by the hand.
I'd prefer it if we didn't add things in that would obviously be exploited. It's one thing to be an asshat with standard game mechanics, it's quite another to add in an ill-thought mechanic and go 'OH HEY LOOK AT THIS' while refusing to actively manage their usage. As coin said,
Quote:Player bases are ships. players control them. If a player was shooting everything that was red, without warning - that would be a sanction.
why should it be any different for player bases?
Also, I love the implication that I take no responsibility for my actions. Nice one. It seems you totally ignored the content of my post to chase a red herring. I never said the 'world', I never implied the 'world' - I said Discovery. This community of full of douchebags, end of.
RE: POBs not working out - Hone - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 10:34 AM)Duvelske Wrote: Why move the bases? Its quite easy i noticed it when trying on my own server, but i don't see the point of it. (max 10 min) IF the bases wich has these turrets are RP'ed well there is in my view nothing wrong with it. Also these bases the golden coin as the itabashi are in my view not badly rp'ed. i have never problems crossing em both. but well its how you can rep your chars too i think. So also its a small part of the problem wich is about yourselves. (if its not repninja'd red like maybe GMG for hogosha but am not sure about that.)
GMG is repninjad red for hogosha, which means the base attacks them, breaking kusari laws, right in front of planet new tokyo. Rather bad RP dont you think? That said, its not the base thats at fault, so no need to move it, its the players who are doing nothing about it.
(01-17-2013, 10:48 AM)Kangarawrawr Wrote:Quote:Player bases are ships. players control them. If a player was shooting everything that was red, without warning - that would be a sanction.
why should it be any different for player bases?
Also, I love the implication that I take no responsibility for my actions. Nice one. It seems you totally ignored the content of my post to chase a red herring. I never said the 'world', I never implied the 'world' - I said Discovery. This community of full of douchebags, end of.
Because bases cant talk?
And if you think the community is ill mannered, you should lead by example.
RE: POBs not working out - lw'nafh - 01-17-2013
(01-17-2013, 10:58 AM)Hone Wrote:(01-17-2013, 10:48 AM)Kangarawrawr Wrote:Quote:Player bases are ships. players control them. If a player was shooting everything that was red, without warning - that would be a sanction.
why should it be any different for player bases?
Also, I love the implication that I take no responsibility for my actions. Nice one. It seems you totally ignored the content of my post to chase a red herring. I never said the 'world', I never implied the 'world' - I said Discovery. This community of full of douchebags, end of.
Because bases cant talk?
And if you think the community is ill mannered, you should lead by example.
Been there, done that. People won't behave better until they're made to. Leading by example only works if anybody follows you to begin with.
Bases can't talk, but the principle isn't too different. Setting a base to red-is-dead everything is pretty freaking stupid. It's made worse in that it's impossible to effectively siege a base past core 2 unless you can field a hundred Russians or have the playerbase of the Corsairs - even then you'll cause the server to crash out for hours.