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+------ Thread: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback (/showthread.php?tid=14207)
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - Sarawr!? - 03-13-2015
(03-13-2015, 09:31 AM)FynnMcScrap Wrote: Nope, actually.
I want a story. I want RP, fun, perhaps a Pew.
I want suspension , the thrill of not knowing what will happen next.
Of an universe I am part of expanding, shrinking, breathing... of a storyline continuing.
Instead I get rulemongering, fight picking, and < name thy favourite > tears.
Fun fact ? I still like playing DISCO. Sometimes.
Pretty much I agree with this.
Predetermined Roleplay isn't fun, and it certainly isn't what was going to happen in the court thread. The Junkers asked for it inRP, and the GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LIBERTY, agreed to facilitate, inRP.
I do believe that both parties should be in constant communication out of character in regard to things like: The nature of the setting, what sorts of things should and shouldn't be expected, and to allay any OOC concerns about bullying, powergaming and so forth; and that's as far as OOC coordination should go, in my mind.
As for your "Honor System" Huggie, that's a big part of the thing here -- The Congress inRP will be faced with some decisions at the outcome of the court stuff, whether or not they honor their part in all this will have a huge effect on how their relationship with the law enforcement/military factions of Liberty continues to develop, I think that's normal.
THE PROBLEM comes when they try to dodge out of consequences inRP, now this isn't (or shouldn't) be a problem out of character, but it certainly DOES (and should) make things worse for the Congress inRP, this is normal, this is how roleplaying works, it's not hard to follow, and I really can't understand why some people don't get that.
I don't want admin intervention, and I don't think anyone representing LibGov does, either, So I don't know where that came from. As for determining whether or not that Court RP is binding? The Republic of Liberty (and all it's military/police factions) play as the legitimate representation of government authority in House Liberty, it stands to reason that entering into such roleplay with "LibGov" or the leadership of the [LN], or the =LSF=, or LPI-, to the end of dealing with crimes and criminal charges would have a binding outcome. Or does that somehow not make sense?
So to clarify again: The LEADERSHIP of the Junker Congress demanded a trial, and the collective leadership of the factions representing the government of Liberty agreed; it seems pretty clear to me that the outcome of such an RP endeavor should be expected to alter 'legal standing' and/or 'Diplomacy', for better or worse.
Honestly I do hope that some fun is had by both sides dealing with that Courtroom RP, I really do, because that's what Roleplaying should be -- FUN, but nobody should expect to always get a favorable result to their inRP actions either, anyone who does is terribly misguided.
As for...whatever this is you're saying about LibGov levying TAXES against POBs in PR, and whoever it was that said something about a purported Siege of PR that would take place: That information is FALSE, there have been no TAXES levied on any POBs, and if there were such demands, they were dropped because somebody realized that they made a mistake, and there is no siege planned either, so let's drop all that RIGHT now, because it isn't true, and I'm not going to let the finger be pointed specifically at the [LN] for something it had ABSOLUTELY NO INVOLVEMENT IN.
The demand for docking rights, and the threats of investigation though, those are legitimate inRP things, and sure, the Junker Congress can refuse to allow such as well, and they'll deal with the repercussion of refusing to cooperate as well, ALL IN CHARACTER AND INRP, AS WOULD MAKE SENSE AND AS SHOULD BE EXPECTED.
I honestly don't know why people cannot differentiate between inRP consequences and "OORP GRUDGES OMG OMG!" in this community, and it drives me up the wall.
The Court RP, WHILE remaining serious in nature, should still be fun for the players involved, and while it is a scifi setting that we're in, and while it is a work of fiction...things SHOULD be kept sensible, that's MY biggest gripe here, and I think it's safe to say that's the gripe of everyone from LibGov who posted as well.
I can't speak for all the other people who posted, because as anyone whose been around here for a while knows -- when the crap hits the fan like it did here, trolls and griefers crawl out of the woodwork to make things all the worse.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - Pancakes - 03-13-2015
Calm your tits, everyone.
Seriously, you're making a huge fuss about a game, both sides of the coin.
As I said, you can either decide you want this trial to be something much more a fun RP, and do it in an organized manner. The whole point of this trial, as I understand it, is to change the outcome of roleplay consequences that happened in response to in-game roleplay or at the very least - attempt to.
OR you can decide that since the result is already predetermined by your view and just do a "w00t w00t" all around. I should remind, again, that this trial is done in order to PREVENT a past predetermined result.
Roleplaying consequences are part of this game, if you don't like it - don't play with anyone who might enforce those on you. Roleplay consequences come in all shapes and sizes - from SRP on the bright positive one to FR5 on the bad one (or good, again depending on your view. Most of my characters who had been FR5ed were a good call IMO since it was the natural development of that character's RP).
I will finish with saying the same thing I've said in the past - you want it to be a serious RP of a trial in a manner of "State of Liberty against the Junker Congress" and have the ability to alter the consequences that were made in response to Junker roleplay - then act like it. Both of you.
One account on each side makes the posting and others are only allowed to post once after being specifically summoned to the thread in both inRP and right after an ooRP clarification of the username allowed to post. Not allowed? Enjoy your moderator infused temp ban for metagaming (hijacking a thread), and your post invis'ed, with both sides prematurely agreeing to ignore your post anyway.
You don't want it the trial to actually do something other than postpone the past consequences that were made by LibGov to a later date? Then by all means continue to have robots, Mexican stand-offs, and random Libertonian walking into the courtroom in attempt to score a kill or w/e.
You can take my words and do something with them, you can ignore them, and you can continue to rant about how I am wrong and should stop roleplaying since I clearly don't get how it's done. It's all up to you and what you do with the opportunity that is given here to all sides involved for some brilliant roleplay scene. Enjoy.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - Swifty - 03-13-2015
(03-13-2015, 05:24 AM)Sarawr!? Wrote:Are you surprised, Sara? It's in their blood to 'play the victim' and to try to change the subject as quick as possible.(03-13-2015, 05:19 AM)WildBill Wrote: Echo,Are you serious right now? Like really?
You are a pillar of this community. The lead developer. Players (should) look up to you and model themselves based on how you behave on these forums. This squabbling (should) be beneath you. Instead of arguing (constantly) in a condescending tone, how about offering up something constructive?
(03-12-2015, 09:49 PM)WildBill Wrote: Everyone needs to calm down. This is how we play the game, this is how our diplomacy works. I for one am sick and tired of catering to everyone else play/RP styles. If you want us to RP to your style, if you want us to play the game the way you think it should be played, tough.(03-13-2015, 01:39 AM)WildBill Wrote: We are not here to be picked on and we are not here to conform to how others view what our RP should be.You should maybe check yourself, people have been offering legitimate concerns for hours now, and the only responses to come back from the Congress have been hostility, accusations of bullying, and even outright dismissal, from YOU YOURSELF, now you want to turn around and talk about being open to constructive criticism?
Yeah, okay hon.
As for you, Congressmen? I've recieved nothing but disgust whenever i had encounters with you. Many *MANY* ganks, lack of RP and so on so i have a few questions for you too.
When will you grow up and change this attitude of yours? I sincerely feel need to tell you that it will get you pretty much nowhere.
Second question, make sure you are completely honest on this one - I honestly believe Congress doesn't deserve it's activity at all, because AFK trading, most AFKing would be in PR, too, i saw that with my own freaking eyes. Do you really think you don't deserve not to get slapped for your actions? Do you honestly think just because you have certain people in your faction, makes you invincible to everything? Because i don't. And i know i'm not the only one to think that.
(03-13-2015, 12:04 PM)Doria Wrote: To me it's still all lolberty gov fault, they are picking on the congress for months now, and by the way congress RP is much better than the 19yo admirals...It's funny how you're proving your immaturity by posting crap such as this and trying to put everyone at the same age as you without even knowing these people in the first place. If you don't have anything creative to say, please stop posting, you're not helping and if you think you are, you're damn wrong.
I expect honest answer (which is pointless because i'm sure i will only get some reject answer by some reject congressman). Seriously TJ, Bill, put your boys in a leash if they don't have anything creative to say.
My 2 cents.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - Pancakes - 03-13-2015
(03-13-2015, 12:04 PM)Doria Wrote: To me it's still all lolberty gov fault, they are picking on the congress for months now, and by the way congress RP is much better than the 19yo admirals...
If you believe comments like that will help you, the congress or the Liberty government in any form possible, then by all means continue.
I for one think that the Junker Congress should settle down letting only their leadership and perhaps selected few HC members post here.
It matters little to none if the Liberty Government is nit-picking Congress or not, Congress have made certain RP moves, Liberty reacted and Congress asked for the ability to change the verdict, something that in my opinion is a very bright move, and an excellent doorway for further RP.
What I don't like that this RP opportunity is being thrown to the garbage, and honestly, you are acting as if someone kicked you from Liberty already - you were only fined and placed under strict prohibition.
Seriously - stop victimizing yourself so much. It's literally disgusting at this point, take what you have - and roll with it. Things don't always go as you planned - that's how life goes.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - Jack_Henderson - 03-13-2015
All participants should take the time to read Huggie's long post.
He has the right idea of how especially in a bad situation as this one an oorp cooperation on the player-player level is needed to make the char-char play not fail. I completely share his criticism that the whole roleplay was poorly planned and badly executed.
Do a 2nd attempt. Clarify what is acceptable and what not. Clarify what is possible as an outcome or even set what result you both want to roleplay towards. Clarify who can post, and what can be posted.
A roleplay of this dimension (for all the critical points, see Huggie's post) cannot be expected to run smoothly without a lot of planning and cooperation on the oorp level.
Get that cooperation fixed.
Then re-play it.
That's the only way I see a chance of saving face and avoiding the roleplay catastrophe that we are moving towards. Furthermore... the amount of drama is too damn high, really. Would be nice if it could be ended in a positive way (means: nice to read roleplay with an outcome that every part can live with).
Good luck
Jack
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - SnakThree - 03-13-2015
@HuggieSunrise
PoB build outside house space are immune to siege after refusing to pay taxes. They are not immune to abiding laws laid down by government. LibGov has not taxed that Puerto Rico.
Congress is at court for two crimes - Cardamine Storage and Shooting down Primary Fleets.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - Garrett Jax - 03-13-2015
(03-13-2015, 01:25 PM)Snak3 Wrote: @HuggieSunrise
PoB build outside house space are immune to siege after refusing to pay taxes. They are not immune to abiding laws laid down by government. LibGov has not taxed that Puerto Rico.
Congress is at court for two crimes - Cardamine Storage and Shooting down Primary Fleets.
And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Congress that asked for the trial? Why would they make that request, if they were just going to declare it a mock trial later and ignore whatever outcome resulted from it? Just for the fun RP?
You have one side who acceded to Congress demands for a trial in the hopes of resolution, and then you have Congress who from all accounts states that the trial is nothing more than fun RP.
What's missing here is accountability for one's actions. It's great to have fun and enjoy yourself ingame, but negative actions have negative consequences. Does Congress reasonably expect to skate after shooting lawful ships? Do they expect Libgov to turn a blind eye to selling Cardamine on their POB, which does exist in House controlled space? Liberty government enforces law in house systems + 1 system beyond, which includes PR.
I have seen absolutely no accountability on the part of Congress in this matter. At least not from the posts I've read in your feedback thread. It's disappointing, honestly. I understand that not everything stated here by Congress members, is representative of Congress leadership. That's highly confusing and it creates unnecessary flames. It would be ideal, particularly in this case, to have only members of Congress who are authorized to speak on behalf of leadership, posting here.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - MÃmir - 03-13-2015
(03-13-2015, 03:24 PM)R.I.P. Wrote: Ummm he did have feedback, just because he was on the side of congress does that mean you have to be so rude?
Hello his feedback was directed at the Liberty Navy for some strange reason. This is definitely not the [LN] feedback thread.
It's an interesting situation though. What do you do with a faction that has isolated itself so much that it cannot see reason, does not know how roleplay is conducted on the forum and is totally oblivious to how factions relate to one another, when said faction is already official?
I really hope that there is some player out there with a bit of common sense and a positive relationship to Congress, so that he/she can attempt to talk a little sense into them in PM's and on Skype without getting brushed off as "Congress haters and trolls". This faction needs a lot of help - more so than any faction I have seen in a long time (official as well as unofficial). If there's really an admin with close ties to Congress, then HELP THEM rather than fuel their paranoia.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - Jihadjoe - 03-13-2015
(03-13-2015, 03:24 PM)R.I.P. Wrote: Ummm he did have feedback, just because he was on the side of congress does that mean you have to be so rude?He had comparative feedback. His feedback was not saying anything about the Congress, but was instead focused on the [LN] and LibGov. He should probably go and post his comments in their feedback, and see where that discussion goes.
Actually, I would strongly suggest he goes and does exactly that. I'm sure it will go very well for him.
RE: .:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback - R.I.P. - 03-13-2015
(03-13-2015, 03:29 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote:(03-13-2015, 03:24 PM)R.I.P. Wrote: Ummm he did have feedback, just because he was on the side of congress does that mean you have to be so rude?He had comparative feedback. His feedback was not saying anything about the Congress, but was instead focused on the [LN] and LibGov. He should probably go and post his comments in their feedback, and see where that discussion goes.
Actually, I would strongly suggest he goes and does exactly that. I'm sure it will go very well for him.
Well honestly this whole thread needs renamed to "Congress Feedback and Hate thread" that is all most of you seem to be turning this into. This truly sickens me to see all of this, make me sad that the community has so much hate and rudeness. Does not fare well for this mod's future and i am sure makes many new players look and think why in the hell would i ever join an official faction and deal with all the petty arguing and hate. I for one will never join another faction again on here. Anyways i am done here, keep going with your flame fest on congress, some of you just make me sick.