+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: The Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Flood (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=98709)
RE: Zoners - Anaximander - 06-27-2013
So it was a good thing that faction power was kept in check in that specific case?
I'm all for guidelines in this game; but I think there are many other things we could do. Bounty Boards could demand proof of hostile status with targets, not accept all loadouts unless the hunter had permission to the tech used, tech thieves could be hunted down more vigilantly, Capital Ship Registries could be used positively to promote events and interaction between indies and faction players. I fear that the gap between faction players and indies will grow if official factions were given more formal power.
For instance I joined team RNC simply by chance; I undocked on a brand new ship, and got taught how to pilot my ship better and how to follow the Fleet Commander's orders. I will follow that fleet commander any day over some random person showing up flashing a tag and saying "I'm your boss, now do what I say", and I think that the "boss-man attitude" will be enforced with more formal faction powers. Indies will gladly follow if you set a good example.
RE: Zoners - Thyrzul - 06-27-2013
(06-27-2013, 01:49 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Factions do have power over indies
![[Image: tell-me-more-about-this.jpg]](http://www.troll.me/images/willy-wonka-gene-wilder/tell-me-more-about-this.jpg)
RE: Zoners - Anaximander - 06-27-2013
Pls, read the thread. You aren't exactly furthering your cause by claiming factions do not hold power over indies, when that is untrue.
P.S. I feel I should make disclaimers, people seem a bit touchy on the subject, so let me just quickly say in advance that I don't hate factions, nor faction players.
RE: Zoners - Sabru - 06-27-2013
(06-27-2013, 01:51 PM)Remilia Scarlet Wrote:(06-27-2013, 01:33 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Not agreeing and not getting the point are two different things.
I believe factions have the tools to carry out their roleplay, they can bar access to their stations and bases if players refuse to comply, their roleplay dictate changes in diplomacy for the entire npc faction.
When LR- agreed with 101st to ban Outcast capitals in Liberty, those capital ship pilots violating the ban were FR5-able. That is faction power over non-faction players and their roleplay, why deny it?*
*Just to nip this in the bud: There are numerous other examples, this is just one.
It's not working as far as I know. And when 101st were trying to rule own lore, diplomacy and indies (yes, about the neutrality with Bretonia) I remember they got a warning of official status removal if they'll try to push indies to be neutral with brets.
I don't know where you getting your assumptions of official factions having power over indies, looks like we're in different universes.
Maybe he got it from rule #4.7? which seems to be an oft ignored server rule.
RE: Zoners - Oorn - 06-27-2013
(06-27-2013, 01:51 PM)Remilia Scarlet Wrote: It's not working as far as I know. And when 101st were trying to rule own lore, diplomacy and indies (yes, about the neutrality with Bretonia) I remember they got a warning of official status removal if they'll try to push indies to be neutral with brets.
I don't know where you getting your assumptions of official factions having power over indies, looks like we're in different universes.
Are you implying it makes sense for criminal super faction and drug lords to be neutral with bretonia house? They were warned because they were doing things that !dont make irp sense!, not because they were trying to change faction.
And with little power official have, i alredy see it abused heavily. Unless faction step up their fairplay i dont want more power given to them.
RE: Zoners - Thyrzul - 06-27-2013
(06-27-2013, 02:05 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Pls, read the thread. You aren't exactly furthering your cause by claiming factions do not hold power over indies, when that is untrue.
Quote:4.7 Official player factions have authority over players of the same NPC affiliation, as long as RP justification is provided. This authority applies in forums and in-game, and applies to player faction diplomacy, and strategic and tactical direction. However, exercise of that authority, on the forums and in game, is restricted to official faction members with the rank of the official faction leader and one rank below him/her. The authority may be exercised through the use of in-game in-RP orders, which, if not obeyed, can result in in-game in-RP consequences (arrest, court martial, and even "lethal" force in extreme circumstances). Official player factions cannot, under any cicrumstances, require another player to follow non-canon RP if that player doesn't want to.
That, my friend, is the only rule we could use to have some kind of power over indies, and that specific line at the end I bolded pretty much kills any flexibility of Roleplay an official faction may want to conduct.
Official factions have no power indies. Admins have power over indies and officials. And we can wipe our arses with whatever guidelines we may intend to provide if indies don't give a crap. No matter how good examples we may try to show.
What do we have in the end? Responsibilities, and the fake illusion that we can conduct our roleplay, because in the end Admins will be the one deciding over that, and slap us if we do something they don't like.
EDIT:
Official factions have no power indies. Admins have power over indies and officials. And we can wipe our arses with whatever guidelines we may intend to provide if indies don't give a crap. No matter how good examples we may try to show.
What do we have in the end? Responsibilities, and the fake illusion that we can conduct our roleplay, because in the end Admins will be the one deciding over that, and slap us if we do something they don't like.
EDIT:
(06-27-2013, 02:10 PM)Oorn Wrote: Are you implying it makes sense for criminal super faction and drug lords to be neutral with bretonia house? They were warned because they were doing things that !dont make irp sense!, not because they were trying to change faction.
Guess what, Bretonia stepped from one war into the other, actually getting steamrolled by Gallia, a common enemy of both Bretonia and the Outcasts. At least some kind of ceasefire would make sense, so they won't shoot eachother down for the amusement of the Gallic invaders.
See? That's what I was talking about, flexible RP seems to be forbidden around here.
See? That's what I was talking about, flexible RP seems to be forbidden around here.
RE: Zoners - Sabru - 06-27-2013
(06-27-2013, 02:10 PM)Oorn Wrote:(06-27-2013, 01:51 PM)Remilia Scarlet Wrote: It's not working as far as I know. And when 101st were trying to rule own lore, diplomacy and indies (yes, about the neutrality with Bretonia) I remember they got a warning of official status removal if they'll try to push indies to be neutral with brets.
I don't know where you getting your assumptions of official factions having power over indies, looks like we're in different universes.
Are you implying it makes sense for criminal super faction and drug lords to be neutral with bretonia house? They were warned because they were doing things that !dont make irp sense!, not because they were trying to change faction.
I agree. in that case, 101st couldnt use rule 4.7
(06-27-2013, 02:10 PM)Oorn Wrote: And with little power official have, i alredy see it abused heavily. Unless faction step up their fairplay i dont want more power given to them.
Can you give an example?
RE: Zoners - Anaximander - 06-27-2013
No I got it from numerous experiences, the LR- vs OC caps discussion is just one where an admin clarified that when LR- and 101st agree on no caps in Liberty it is canon for OC's to follow, regardless of what other roleplay said indies had going. I'm also thinking about a base that shoots all unregistered Cardamine transports, yet the base owner faction and the Cardamine exporting faction agrees that the base is in no way blocking cardamine trade contrary to server events so that's the way it is - no banging the wardrums, indies must comply.
Personally I've very much had the roleplay of my characters shaped by decisions made by factions - decisions I didn't agree with, and found within reason to question, but cannot since the relationship between the Official Faction and the NPC faction makes dissent impossible. In short, I have often found myself playing a character in a story someone else has written, without being able to influence the overarching structures. That is true power, more so than direct power through paragraphs because it shapes my character's roleplay on every level. You should acknowledge that if you want to understand your own position better, as well as the position of indies.
RE: Zoners - Sabru - 06-27-2013
(06-27-2013, 02:17 PM)Anaximander Wrote: No I got it from numerous experiences, the LR- vs OC caps discussion is just one where an admin clarified that when LR- and 101st agree on no caps in Liberty it is canon for OC's to follow, regardless of what other roleplay said indies had going. I'm also thinking about a base that shoots all unregistered Cardamine transports, yet the base owner faction and the Cardamine exporting faction agrees that the base is in no way blocking cardamine trade contrary to server events so that's the way it is - no banging the wardrums, indies must comply.
Personally I've very much had the roleplay of my characters shaped by decisions made by factions - decisions I didn't agree with, and found within reason to question, but cannot since the relationship between the Official Faction and the NPC faction makes dissent impossible. In short, I have often found myself playing a character in a story someone else has written, without being able to influence the overarching structures. That is true power, more so than direct power through paragraphs because it shapes my character's roleplay on every level. You should acknowledge that.
some could probably say the opposite. but then thats disco for you.
RE: Zoners - Anaximander - 06-27-2013
Tell me an official faction that involuntarily got it's roleplay dictated through and through by indies?