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+---- Thread: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions (/showthread.php?tid=110566)
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Mercarryn - 01-20-2014
Well, before I explain the reason behind my vote, please keep in mind, that I am both a member of OSI ( zoner faction that does not use zoner caps) and 141|, order indie faction where I am using an Order ID Aquilon that inRP was granted by TAZ and Phoenix.
So, I have to admit, I may be biased (and to be honest, I think everyone is biased to some degree)
Ok, so I voted both points 1 and 3, i.e. leave them as they are and the idea about unique transport line.
Well, why did I vote for this?
Now, I think we cannnot just use one of the following proposals on ALL the zoner caps, instead one should have a look at each zoner cap and try to get a solution for it on its own.
I'd like to take the Fearless as an example. According ID infocard, it is meant to be a Q-Ship, a.ka a zoner whale that was transformed into a combat ship. Why don't we set it up as sone like that?
My idea for the Fearless would be the following:
-increase the cargo 3.8k perhaps so it cannot land in house space) and give it a transport shield so that one can see where its origin lies, perhaps even give it turning speed of a transport.
-keep the current cruiser speed and armor. Add a few transport guns AND keep the 2 heavy cruiser slots (as a nasty surprise).
(tbh, I`d like to fly such a nasty thing as OSI, sorry Daedric
)Corvo:
I am not sure about this one. I have used an Order ID Corvo against a K'hara Marduk surcessfully in 4.86, don't know how it is now in .87:
-Either make the model bigger or perhaps adjust the turning speed.
-Remove the CD (?)
Aquilon:
Ok, I might sound biased, but I think the Zoners actually need it as it is now. Only thing that comes to my mind to make it less agressive is:
-Nerf its hull a bit. Though wiith the current loadout I'd not really use it against other battleships.
But yes, the Aquilon is a true capital ship and it should stay as one.
Nephilim:
Yeah, I think that one here is the root of all evil, due to it being in the one of the stronges capital ships in terms of hull and firepower, although actually a flying freeport.
-My proposal would be to do the "less firepower - more armor" solution. I think that this one fits for the Nephilim and let's zoners survive in dangerous areas like Omicrons without acting to militant. This would also solve the little problem that Order indies use the nephilims as true combat weapons like it happened in late .86.
*EDIT*
Just noticed I forgot the Conference. Well, haven't really used it but from my point of view, it can stay as it is and be used a heavy escort and armored transport vessel. I see no reason to change it.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Lythrilux - 01-20-2014
Zap their caps into transports.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - RedEclipse - 01-20-2014
Merc, Nephilim against Aquilon cant do nothing, just like any heavy battleship against tiny profile. We tried multiple times, and with proper combat skills Aquilon wins. But anyway it's not that really important - Nephilim has purpose to exists, as it's colony ship(multi-role). While Aquilon is a pure warship.
Idk why Jinx think Zoners need then a flying fortress, it wouldn't do work, since ships not a problem, but a people which using them by a wrong way(even with 10% output, it'll be great addition to corsair/outcast or whatever gank fleet because of huge amount of HP). If loadout changes, nothing happens with people. As for ubertransports - turning Zoners in pure trading faction totally wrong.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Lythrilux - 01-20-2014
The best solution might just be to delete them from the mod.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - RedEclipse - 01-20-2014
Good solution to remove kebab disco.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Rodent - 01-20-2014
Delete the Zoner ID. Retain the IFF.
Enjoy ruminating over that.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Tommeh - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 07:30 PM)Rodent Wrote: Delete the Zoner ID. Retain the IFF.
Enjoy ruminating over that.
Not bad idea actually. If you could RP with someone according to their IFF, then someone could actually RP ex Corsair with Sair guns, ship and ID, but Zoner IFF.
Role play would be far more interesting when you meet up person where you know his background just by scanning him.
About Zoner caps, making them unique transports would work best IMO.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - RedEclipse - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 07:30 PM)Rodent Wrote: Delete the Zoner ID. Retain the IFF.It's a good solution of people who's enjoying "blablabla" here, instead of playing actually game. Haters gonna hate.
Enjoy ruminating over that.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Omicron - 01-20-2014
How about leaving decisions of what happens with Zoners to people who:
a) Actually play as a Zoner
b) Have not pushed entirety of NPC faction towards current status through multum of "revisions" and poorly thought of development choices over the timespan of entire mod?
(01-20-2014, 01:37 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: The easiest solution is to force gallia to attack zoners, to justify a new culture to the zoners, to be more aggressive
Perhaps you should not push your "logical" ideas, considering you are part of the problem?
(01-20-2014, 01:42 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: This is a tiny part from an unpublished ZA lore, that pretty much explains the zoners as a whole ( though its only one page out of.. many ).
*Unpublished, convenient piece of text concerning entire NPC faction coming from group that does not behave like a Zoners. Next.
(01-20-2014, 01:42 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: The Zoners began to use their vast sums of wealth accumulated over hundreds of years to build a fleet comparable to the strongest of the houses.
U wot m8
(01-20-2014, 01:42 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: The Order sent their best engineers and technicians, while the Zoners funded there constant war with the nomads.
Stop talking on behalf of The Order as you have long time ago proved you know nothing about us. Zoners do not build competitive fleets and neither The Order made those caps for them. Zoners allied with The Order to protect their edge world settlements as alone they would face pretty much extinction on hands of Nomads or other sinister things.
(01-20-2014, 01:42 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: they just needed a leader.
Thats all you need to know.
Zoners by definition have no central government and strive to keep it that way.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Savas - 01-20-2014
Well put, Trolanski.