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+--- Thread: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. (/showthread.php?tid=120394)
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Teerin - 09-10-2014
(09-10-2014, 03:36 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote:(09-10-2014, 03:30 PM)Teerin Wrote: [...]
If you have a problem with the manner in which I Role Play please use the Feed Back page I created. Further more please take the time to read my role play before a. saying something that I haven't done, and b. calling my role play crap
I don't mind that my SRP is being used as the example in this thread. I will mind if you choose to bash my style of playing this game openly. This isn't the place to do that.
On your SRP, all you had was this
Code:
tl;dr: Tech Nerf Issue
Steve Squigs has steadily been increasing his lot among the Junkers for quite some time. His acquisition of the L’Ane Brigand Transport came about from a family contact from the depths of Gallic Space. Steve himself won’t say anything about this family member, but since his acquisition of the vessel Steve has found himself more closely watched than usual to ensure his loyalty to the Congress.
But even with several sets of eyes on him Steve has continued to work towards ensuring a steady supply of Synth Weed for not only himself, but anyone who's willing to pay his price.Your prior roleplay about how your character got that ship should have been included there. That's why the Admins review it, then publicly post it. I don't hold any ill will against you, Nemo, but as for your point B, the truth hurts.
If I have an encounter to mention of yours not pertinent to the discussion of this thread, then yes of course I shall use your feedback thread. And of course, if you're willing to roleplay something with us that isn't some powergamey predetermined "I win" event, I'd be happy to oblige.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Stoner_Steve - 09-10-2014
(09-10-2014, 03:49 PM)Teerin Wrote: On your SRP, all you had was this
Code:tl;dr: Tech Nerf Issue
Steve Squigs has steadily been increasing his lot among the Junkers for quite some time. His acquisition of the L’Ane Brigand Transport came about from a family contact from the depths of Gallic Space. Steve himself won’t say anything about this family member, but since his acquisition of the vessel Steve has found himself more closely watched than usual to ensure his loyalty to the Congress.
But even with several sets of eyes on him Steve has continued to work towards ensuring a steady supply of Synth Weed for not only himself, but anyone who's willing to pay his price.
I personally believe that there was more to that SRP than a single paragraph, but hey I can't read or write apparently so what would I know.
I'm sorry that you disagree with the SRP process. However I have the ship and that won't be changing any time soon, if anything the rage and anger that the vessel has created is actively encouraging me to get more flight time than all my enemies.
Regardless most of what I would argue has already been touched on by others.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Thyrzul - 09-10-2014
(09-10-2014, 03:36 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: If you have a problem with the manner in which I Role Play please use the Feed Back page I created. Further more please take the time to read my role play before a. saying something that I haven't done, and b. calling my role play crap
I don't mind that my SRP is being used as the example in this thread. I will mind if you choose to bash my style of playing this game openly. This isn't the place to do that.
Brushing off a well reasoned argument with "this is not the place for feedback" and "educate yourself before you bash my rp" but without actual counter arguement to the subject is not the best way to retain your credibility.
For the record, I've read all roleplay prior to you submitting the SRP in all the threads you linked in the SRP, and not even a faint hint I found about how Squigs acquired the l'Ane. All I found was that you noted in your .:j:. app that Steve's adoptive family was non-Gallic, subtly hinting (without any clarification though), that he might have been born as a Gallic, but that is again quite shaky if we add being born in 795 AS and on Barrier Gate Station. And that one sentence about said unknown family contact in your SRP app. That's all, no further roleplay about getting the ship.
Believing you may have done a bit more than what's visible and being able to provide actual evidence to support your defense are two entirely different things, and I don't think people care too much about mere beliefs here. Teerin listed a lot of gaps in your roleplay (or the lack of it), and told you what's wrong. I am yet to see you address his points, but I'm eagerly waiting your response on them, should you have any.
For the record, I've read all roleplay prior to you submitting the SRP in all the threads you linked in the SRP, and not even a faint hint I found about how Squigs acquired the l'Ane. All I found was that you noted in your .:j:. app that Steve's adoptive family was non-Gallic, subtly hinting (without any clarification though), that he might have been born as a Gallic, but that is again quite shaky if we add being born in 795 AS and on Barrier Gate Station. And that one sentence about said unknown family contact in your SRP app. That's all, no further roleplay about getting the ship.
Believing you may have done a bit more than what's visible and being able to provide actual evidence to support your defense are two entirely different things, and I don't think people care too much about mere beliefs here. Teerin listed a lot of gaps in your roleplay (or the lack of it), and told you what's wrong. I am yet to see you address his points, but I'm eagerly waiting your response on them, should you have any.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - aerelm - 09-10-2014
(09-10-2014, 03:30 PM)Teerin Wrote: "Gallic Generic Unlawful" is a misnomer.
Back near the end of 4.86, there was a technerf request thread available for official faction leaders to post in (which has since been invised or deleted, I dunno why). On the l'Ane infocard, it says that both the Gallic Brigands and the Unione Corse are its sole makers. So in that thread, I asked for the Corse to be able to get l'Anes at 100% core instead of the previous 90%
That's the only reason the tech cell exists. I think I even asked for it to be called the "Brigand/Corse Ship" cell, or something like that. Because it makes inRP sense, right? Calling it the "Gallic Generic Unlawful" and using that as an excuse to be able to get an SRP makes no inRP sense. Heck, it only makes ooRP sense if you know nothing about the lore.
Unfortunately, that's not how it actually is, but merely how the Corse wants it to be. Those two are rather different. If you think the infocard is unclear and does not perfectly reflect the open use nature of that ship within the blackmarket of Gallia, we can always push it through a rewrite to fix the issue and clear the confusion. Brigand freighter and tranport (again, not Corse in any shape or form) are supposed to be the Gallic equivalents of the Sirian Z-line transports.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Teerin - 09-10-2014
(09-10-2014, 04:15 PM)aerelm Wrote:(09-10-2014, 03:30 PM)Teerin Wrote: [...]
Unfortunately, that's not how it actually is, but merely how the Corse wants it to be. Those two are rather different. If you think the infocard is unclear and does not perfectly reflect the open use nature of that ship within the blackmarket of Gallia, we can always push it through a rewrite to fix the issue and clear the confusion. Brigand freighter and tranport (again, not Corse in any shape or form) are supposed to be the Gallic equivalents of the Sirian Z-line transports.
aerelm, that is how it is. The infocard is clear. It's not just how the Corse view it, but other Gallic factions as well; GRN|, [C], even the old +LE+ recognized that.
I don't care too much about the Courier, it's not really that relevant to the topics of this thread, and as for the Corse having it at 100% or 90%, it's not that important. Tbh, since it's based off the frame of the Jaguar (as per its infocard and design), there should be a Courier Noir based off the frame of the Jaguar Noir. If I can find a texturer, I'll get a model submitted.
Not Corsican in any shape or form? Again, infocard. Also, talk to Pinko - Corse are technically an autonomous part/subset of the Brigands anyway (it's confusing, really, ask him not me). Neither ship was originally meant to be the Gallic Z-Line, and Gallia doesn't even need one. Nearly every Gallic faction, except for the Maquis, should be able to use and do use the Vache.
Also, I'd appreciate a full response to my earlier post please, not an in-part denial and ignore the rest.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Thyrzul - 09-10-2014
Even if it's a Gallic Generic Unlawful Transport, it is still a Gallic Generic Unlawful Transport, what does justify a Sirian Junker using one? Two sentences in the SRP application without any precedent Roleplay to support it? Is that how we gonna give away technology to anyone randomly, with a total of 28 words (incluing articles and conjunctions) of inRP explaination in an ooRP setting?
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Garrett Jax - 09-10-2014
Full disclosure:
When the SRP for the L'ane was applied for, the initial vote was a tentative yes, pending more RP as to how the player arrived with that ship. This RP was never provided to us (I'm unsure if it was even asked for tbh. An oversight on our part, perhaps). With the tentative yes's posted it was assumed by all that the SRP was approved with the requisite number of votes. Nobody checked to confirm that the additional RP was provided. So, in short, we goofed.
What to do about it? We will leave the SRP as is for now pending this additional RP. If the RP as to how the player arrived with this ship is weak, then he wouldn't have qualified for the SRP anyways. If the RP is strong, then the player may keep the ship as is. The Staff will cast a revote once this RP is provided.
Considering our screw up, I think this is the fairest way to deal with this matter going forward.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Binski - 09-10-2014
(09-10-2014, 05:08 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:Even if it's a Gallic Generic Unlawful Transport, it is still a Gallic Generic Unlawful Transport, what does justify a Sirian Junker using one? Two sentences in the SRP application without any precedent Roleplay to support it? Is that how we gonna give away technology to anyone randomly, with a total of 28 words (incluing articles and conjunctions) of inRP explaination in an ooRP setting?
Consider though, that its not even a military ship, its a transport. As far as the UC are concerned, they simply find themselves in the position where someone from Sirius got a hold of one of their ships and are using it for themselves. Every faction, at some time, has to deal with that in small ways. The tech chart does allow for a bit of reasonable flexibility for a reason. SRP's allow a stretch on that, but its not insane for this to have happened. I honestly can't believe the amount of obvious oorp hurt there is over it from those playing as the gallics who seem quite bent out of shape over it. The INRP response has seemed appropriate in both scale and RP consistency.
Quote:X: I want ship Z from Y faction.
Y: We don't want you to have ship Z from us.
X: Well, I want it, so too bad. And good luck stopping me!
So is this you or the character you're playing that cares so much? There comes a point where even the admins know that SRP's in general go against the regular grain and might not go over well with everyone. That's why its costly. It means sometimes factions will have no choice but to respond inrp only. Bounties and engaging that person directly might be their only options. How bad you/your character cares about it reflects on how much inrp-wise you're willing to work. The price you put on this ship was not exactly enough to have bounty hunters knocking down his door every 10 minutes. If that's the kind of inrp pressure you wanted, and you're willing to sink 250 mil into an opposing SRP, sink it into bounties instead, that might get you the results you want. Otherwise this reeks of OP jealousy that results in going way further out of your way to take down 1 srp'd 'stolen' transport than the gallics would really care about inrp.
Quote:$40,000,000 if you confirm that the .:j:.Res_Nullius has been left on a base we can retrieve it from, such as Java Station or Barrier Gate Station.
$20,000,000 if you must apply the voice of your guns in wrecking him.
$10,000,000 for all other Junker's Congress vessels (// transports included if your ID allow it) after giving them our notice.
40 mil to get someone to give up their 250 mil srp'd ship?
20 mil for one kill? That doesn't sound like he's that wanted.
10 for random congress vessels, which is basically a bonus for UC ships that find one while they stalk the Taus. You had the chance to inrp put some serious pressure on him. 500 mil was authorized, but you weren't really willing to spend the money to make him regret, inrp and oorp, flying the ship. If its bothering you this much, why not put a price that shows how much it bothers you instead of trying to nickle and dime it. Otherwise, if this is all you're willing to pay, you can't expect him to leave his ship somewhere with the keys in the ignition when he could easily match 40 mil with one cargo haul of pscrap.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Lythrilux - 09-10-2014
Maybe make an event with the guy in order to make the RP more concrete or something?
Perhaps instead of fussing over problems that are in the past, things can be fixed by encouraging a positive solution for both parties here and now.
RE: On opposing SRPs: A discussion. - Zed26 - 09-10-2014
What Garrett just mentioned probably explains why this RP about the ship was posted after the fact.
Anyway, don't feel strongly one way or the other about this issue. My only concern is that there need to be fewer rustled jimmies in the community at large.
About the l'Ane, posting the current game info for an objective reference:
Infocard:
Quote:BT485 "l'Ane" Brigand TransportSell Points:
With the formal advent of the Council and the indirect support that movement granted, the Brigands and Union Corse were suddenly freed to produce vessel capable of ferrying much more ambitious quantities of goods, both illicit and mundane, amongst their bases and construction sites.
Well armed and armored, the sleek lines of the l'Ane have caught the eye of many a shipping captain on more legitimate sides of the fence, resulting in the vessel finding itself in the hands of more than one Council pilot hard pressed to secure a more legitimate train.
Avon Hideout, Ile-de-France (The Maquis)
Caussade Depot, Roussillon (The Maquis)
Narbonne Base, Languedoc (Gallic Brigands)
Planet Marne, Champagne (Gallic Brigands)