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+--- Thread: Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' (/showthread.php?tid=12263)
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - CusoJR - 09-20-2008
Slowdown everybody! *breathe* ok that's better.
This is not about guarding zone 21 or about oorp smuggling really. It's about locking one specific gate that is supposed to be locked as it was in single player. Please don't turn this into a flame fest.
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - chovynz - 09-20-2008
' Wrote:Pardon me,but I am one of the so-called "monkeys" that sits and guards that gate.Aye, and a good little money you are too. Little monkey with a big big gun.:D
Personally I like the idea of codes AND a gate "shield" like the trade lanes.Between the two,that will stop the oorp travel into z21,and allow RP'ed zone access. ...
"Shut up Hyung! I Keel you!"
Personally I like the Keys as a commodity . It brings another dimension to helps cops rp as real corrupt cops now. Those that pretend they have the keys can now actually GET one, and bypass the trusty <strike>Monk</strike>..Guards, if they can RP it right. It stops the traders (unless they get a key), it makes it easier on the <strike>guards</strike> monekys, and opens up a tradeable/physical underground dealing possibilities.
I imagine those keys would be highly prized and protected.
Am totally for this idea. (Not that my opinion counts for much.)
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - kingvaillant - 09-20-2008
Guys, please stop using the argument about the OORP trade routes going in there.
I will put it in solid ice. THEY ARE GETTING NERF. Traders won't have any businesses there anymore.
Whilst the idea is interesting, there is too much complications and I guess it couldn't get implemented correctly.
EDIT: A key MIGHT work. But what about as i said, new Characters? What about order based Characters? What about nomads? What about characters with special RP?
Unless you make the commodity sold in some key(restricted) locations, and for those with weird RP, make some kind of scanner that would be mounted by player with the ability to jump with the gate.
But I'm pretty sure this idea will get a no.
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - Coin - 09-20-2008
In SP, ALL the NY gates were locked down until you had completed some mission or other. Dammit microsoft, give us teh source code!
i like the idea of one-time datapad keys - it will create a commodity that can be traded player-to-player, and will therefore be a *small* step towards the mythical unicorn that is a dynamic economy...
imo, the jumpholes shouldn't be locked down - realistically, there is nothing to lock down - there is no machine to prevent access
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - jpo - 09-20-2008
' Wrote:jpo, clearly you don't actually seem to grasp the idea that the Alaskan gate in New York is one of the greatest secrets of the Liberty Military and that average-jo Junker wouldn't be able to get through it, let alone get close to it in theory.Its on the map, its easy to find, and the lane hackers, Ageria, and DSE can all open it. All of those factions sell rep hacks so all of those factions would have someone selling the codes.
The ID would be available but at places where it logically makes sense.
If you can show me how say, a Liberty Rogue, might get the codes to the gate without A)Taking the codes from a Navy ship or B)Getting the codes through bribery etc, then you might have cause to complain about it.
This has Nothing to do with singleplayer or multiplayer, only the fact that throughout the entirety of Freelancer we have known Alaska to be an off-limit military zone.
In regards to this:
Firstly, I have no intention of controlling anyone's RP. I wouldn't call the silent Adv.Trains full of artifacts and with a generic ID very well roleplayed however.
Secondly, yapping on about how clearly this is simply a biased suggestion to benefit the lawfuls is simply silly.
I do not have a single lawful character.
This would actually make it harder for me to get into Alaska. So please refrain from simply flinging false accusations at people.
Once again though, how would a liberty rogue get ahold of the gatecodes to the Alaskan gate without:
A)Stealing them from a now dead Navy ship
B)Bribing an officer for them
C)Getting them off the Junkers. (Though the LSF would try and never let this happen. They only tolerate Rochester since it allows them to keep an eye on the criminal trade and get some public relations boosts every so often with raids)
Do not accuse me of 'yapping on' as I did nothing to assassinate your character and don't deserve that.
A train full of artifacts can never be oorp, only the person playing it. The person playing can only be OORP if they had previously role played someone who wouldnt do that run and then broke character. Just because you dont think someone would do that run doesent mean they wont. As i have pointed out before, people have hollowed out dead babies to smuggle coaine, its absolutely off the hook idiocy to say someone wouldn't risk their life or violate a military order to get what they want.
look at it again:
Quote:Firstly, I have no intention of controlling anyone's RP. I wouldn't call the silent Adv.Trains full of artifacts and with a generic ID very well roleplayed however.
Then don't. Don't say you have no intention of doing something and then support it.
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - chovynz - 09-20-2008
The problem that you are not seeing Jpo is that the Alaskan gate is the only gate (as far as I know) that "should be locked" according to Vanilla Freelancer lore. Unless the traders that use it, can bribe someone for the codes they shouldnt be able to use it. Most people who use it are ignoring that they actually "cant" enter it, according to Freelancer lore.
That "key" commmodity is not about restricting peoples roleplay, its about giving people possibilities of that roleplay. What having a physical key does is take away casual users of the gate. That is a good thing.
It also opens up the possibilty for cops or LSF agents to roleplay as corrupt cops finally, in selling things that give access to "restricted space".
It opens up the possibilty of acquiring those same "keys" via smuggling or underground criminal activities.
It opens up people actually being able to really use that gate instead of just going there because they want to, or for the lulz, or for the trade route. It will make the gate unhackable by humans (except possibly the Lane Hackers). As it is supposed to be.
Of course even if you DO have the key you still have to get past the <strike>monkeys.</strike>..guards.
' Wrote:This is an incredibly silly idea. You already have a bloody embargo on Z21, just learn to enforce it. There's plenty of monkeys running about in BH and LN capships, tell a few of them to plant themselves over the Alaska gate and shoot people without the approprate tag and ID. If you can't enforce your own RP Laws, don't try to make the server do it for you.Its not a silly idea, its how it is in Freelancer Vanilla which is what Disco is based off. The best way to make things work properly is to hardcode them into the game. Human nature is such that if we find an exploit that we "shouldnt" use, we will use it anyway. Just like Tradelanes are the only acceptable way of going 3000kph, so is making a key commodity that opens the "locked" gate. You "cant" use speedmods to go 3000kph, and so you "cant" open that locked gate, without the key. Actually making that key a physical thing that players can trade, barter, steal, buy, use... is a good idea.
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - jpo - 09-20-2008
I understand the concept good sir but the point is that if its more role play we want then simply have at least one ship gaurding the hole 24/7. Thats what would likely be done realisticaly. Do you think there is ever NOT a gaurd at area 51?
The problem is that it is meaningless to put it in the game if you do it right. Why? Because, as I have illustrated where there is a will there is a way. Example:
No smuggler would wear a smuggler ID, they would wear a trader ID. The only reason the players on Disco don't do it (hopefully they dont) is it is a punishable offense IRL.
So, the programmers throw the key access into the mix for the new mod. Who is allowed to have the key? If only the lawfuls are you just killed my RP and forced yours down my throat. If i can obtain the key (i the player) without sanctions no matter how hard you make it everybody that uses that route will get the key, and we are back to square one.
So in conclusion I think it is rather obvious that:
1. Making the key accessable only to lawfuls would not be fair, nor would it allow for propper roleplay.
2. making the key available to everyone would put us where we are now.
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - CusoJR - 09-20-2008
' Wrote:So in conclusion I think it is rather obvious that:How so? Is it unfair that you, as a citizen, can't walk into Area 51 and check out the Alien Bodies?
1. Making the key accessable only to lawfuls would not be fair, nor would it allow for propper roleplay.
Damn right it ain't fair but it certainly is proper roleplay.
You say that someone should be posted at Zone 21 AT ALL TIMES? Make yourself an LSF Character and sit there all day. I guarantee after half an hour you will get bored out of your skull. Don't you think someone like gafwmn could be used somewhere else? Do you think that he wants to sit there all day? I certainly wouldn't. Now if the Codes are droppable then there is every chance that some unlawful could get access to them.
Normally I agree with you Jpo, on every point, but in this case you're way off base.
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - Zygoeths - 09-20-2008
NOOOOO, DONT CLOSE ALASKA NOOOO. XD im jking. I think that because its open gives a bit more feel, maybe u should change it into a jump hole? I mean lets see, there would no reason to worry about area 21 anymore, that would ruin some stuff. Right... XD, i like to do XD. But i think your right about being bored, no wonder gaf is always so grumpy...
Restricted access to Alaska through 'keys'/'codes' - SevereTrinity - 09-20-2008
' Wrote:So in conclusion I think it is rather obvious that:
1. Making the key accessable only to lawfuls would not be fair, nor would it allow for propper roleplay.
2. making the key available to everyone would put us where we are now.
And you just blew your own argument out of the water.
We have said it won't be lawful only, or for everyone, the few factions that would get it are probably Order, Hackers, Liberty Lawfuls, and any other people.
This is good, because both sides of pirates could get one (albeit it would be a long winded road). E.g. Corsairs could buy some from Order then sell them on to the Hessians.
Hackers could sell them to any of their allies.
The only people who wouldn't get any are Xenos, and they're getting their ships in their guard system next mod