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+--- Thread: Kusari Exiles ID change (/showthread.php?tid=124690)
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Stuffz - 01-14-2015
Well, it seems clear to me that no one of you complaining about Kusari has ever really played in kusari.
They only three japanese words that are actually used are the simple Konbanwa/Konnichiwa and Sayonara.
It's really not at all different to the Guten Tag you hear in Rheinland every time.
I've only met a handful of players fulfilling the anime stereotype, but I guess you all wouldn't know that. It's always easy to find things to complain about
just to have an excuse to never try it.
It's funny really how the community has the preconceived opinion that Kusari must by default be a dead house.
They even said that during times when the KNF had like 9 days of activity and was the most active military faction on the server.
On topic: The exiles simply are not interesting enough to play. Even now they have plenty of opportunity to clash with the KNF and still nobody but a handful plays them. And it's not the lack of battleships either since KNF almost never actually uses caps. I don't know how you can get people to play them but who knows what the update will bring.
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Geolog - 01-14-2015
(01-14-2015, 07:07 PM)Stuffz Wrote: Well, it seems clear to me that no one of you complaining about Kusari has ever really played in kusari.
They only three japanese words that are actually used are the simple Konbanwa/Konnichiwa and Sayonara.
It's really not at all different to the Guten Tag you hear in Rheinland every time.
I've only met a handful of players fulfilling the anime stereotype, but I guess you all wouldn't know that. It's always easy to find things to complain about
just to have an excuse to never try it.
It's funny really how the community has the preconceived opinion that Kusari must by default be a dead house.
They even said that during times when the KNF had like 9 days of activity and was the most active military faction on the server.
On topic: The exiles simply are not interesting enough to play. Even now they have plenty of opportunity to clash with the KNF and still nobody but a handful plays them. And it's not the lack of battleships either since KNF almost never actually uses caps. I don't know how you can get people to play them but who knows what the update will bring.
All of the above plus below:
KNF forces that were cut of from the main fleet and got stranded in Bretonia consisted out of 2 Battleships (Yamaguchi and Nagasaki) and support crafts such as Destroyers, Gunboats and snubs. The Battleships are now stationary stations. It makes sense that Exiles can't use Battleships because then they might as well conquer back Kusari. Also, is it so hard to make a group of 5 Umibozus and kill every battleship fleet that crosses your path. No, it isn't. 5 bombers that's all you need. Don't know why everyone prefer the big guns, as if they are so much better. Or is it just complex of lesser value so bigger must be better. On the contrary, smaller is also good, try it.
Next point. Kusari Emperor is looking for ways to get back to throne because regular people like him, only the usurpers in the government don't. If he is to make it back to the throne still have people that love him in Kusari he shouldn't kill the loyal defenders of the Kusari, aka KNF. He should look for the other less exposed ways to get back to power. Meaning only cutting the head and putting him self there. You get the point, I hope.
About non English words people such as Konbanwa, Konnichiwa (hello), Arigato (thank you) and Sayonara (so long) ; it's really more of a common hello word which is nicer to hear in the native house language then in English. Guten morgen (good morning), Guten tag (good day), Guten abend (good evening), Auf wiedersehen (goodbye), Bonjour (good morning), Ola, Hola and so on are those nice variations that are nice to hear. Makes you get more into your current roll.
And Kusari is not dead. Play in it and you might really see it's not. Not playing, hearing from other sources and then qqing is not the good way to describe a house. I, for example, spent most of my time in Kusari. It's the nicest house of all houses in Freelancer. It's nice just to fly through it and stare at it's beauty let alone do something useful.
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - WesternPeregrine - 01-14-2015
The last version of Kusari Exiles RP was built upon so, but oh so many stereotypes, that it was crippling it's play style. Almost all of the pilots acted like fanatical kamikazi pilots, who had to kill or get killed at the sight of the first enemy they encountered.
The Exiles suffer from two additional flaws. One, is that they are played as outcasted traditionalists, hating the government, and following a rather vague ideal of rightful authority.
Well guess who has that role already? The Blood Dragons, that's who. Having "retaking the throne" as the main goal puts them in the same direction of the BD, but without any of the characteristics of the older faction (a good fortress, capships and paths into Kusari, etc.).
The second flaw is not really on the part of Exiles, but on the part of Kusari shiplines. Somehow, KNF snubs still have this infamy of being too agile and op, and after a few bouts against them, many people discard any activity in Kusari because they feel the playing field unbalanced (when it was balanced a few updates ago, with the introduction of the VHF and the according nerf of the hf). I even heard the BD leader commenting on his preference of flying in the Taus than facing Naval forces at home.
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The ones who have met anyone playing a kusari character with "broken english", please be the first to present evidence of it. As I have seen, Kusari pilots (and even visiting foreigners) don't go further than "Konnichiwa", "Sayonara", and sometimes "arigato" (thank you), "hai" (yes) and "iie" (no). There is no complicated stuff here, no broken grammar sentences involved, and the usage of japanese words is at equal or lower level than the germanic usage by Rheinland forces.
In my personal case, I even reduce that usage even further if I go out of Kusari.
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It was previously mentioned that there would be fractures within KNF at the mention of the Imperials, but those fractions have already occurred in the past. The Exiles are not only the ones that were stranded in the Bretonia frontline, they are also the ones who defected from the emerging Republican forces, those who believed in the Emperor's right, those who disliked the Republican ideals, and those whose positions would weaken under the new rulers. They escaped to the Taus, contacted with any possible allies, and joined the Exiled forces in the best way they could.
The Exiles surely have some more Battleships in their midst. Survivors of the frontline, perhaps one or two defectors. But the Imperial Fleet, when planning on Invading the Taus, surely didn't planned on taking with them copies of Blueprints for their capital construction, hoping to use them in some recently captured and less than secure shipyard in Bretonia.
Loyalists in Kusari wouldn't hold to positions in command for long, until they were discovered and removed from duty, or forced to escape and join the Farmers Alliance or something. This is a personal view on the topic.
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As a final remark, one alternative that I suggest is to make the Exiles drop the "Imperial Recovery" thing (as the main promoters of the idea are somewhat gone), and make a full anti-gallic force.
The idea of a fleet of "samurai warriors", that were faced with the Gallics during their war, and decide that there is no greater virtue to be the best at taking down the "mightiest enemy" in Sirius. A conversion from "imperial radicals" to "warrior race radicals".
While the Colonials have to protect their people and keep Coronado safe, and the Council prefers to keep their forces hidden until that (so far away) turnaround in the Gallic expansion, the Exiles could be the ones with nothing to lose, but with much to gain from taking the front line and acquiring honor by foiling the Gallic plans.
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RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Zed26 - 01-14-2015
(01-14-2015, 08:04 PM)WPeregrine Wrote: The ones who have met anyone playing a kusari character with "broken english", please be the first to present evidence of it.Would you cry foul if we cited superior slayers of bakas ("baka-domo" would actually be a better way to pluralize it)? I'm not knocking the RP, or anyone's decision to use other languages, as it can be entertaining and refreshing. Heck, I've made crayon drawings off the bridge of a Zoner carrier. However, the bits here and there, plus the various cultural stereotypes with kamikaze pilots dying for the Emperor, etc. add up to make it pretty alien to outside players.
I'm in the same boat as Tal background-wise. Not offended per se, but I can see how it's hard for others to take seriously due to the stereotypes. I honestly can't remember - did characters in vanilla Freelancer pepper their speech with Engrish or Japanese (aside from names)? For example, not to get too political, but having the intelligence branch named "Kempeitai" is the equivalent to naming BDM "Gestapo" + more historical atrocities (if the mods object to this, feel free to sub euphemisms).
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Geolog - 01-14-2015
Play the SP again. You'll see the Rheinland and Kusari storyline chars have German and Japanese accents. Everyone speek English, but only Libertonians and Bretonians speek pure English. The rest have their own native accents. It's like listening Russians in movies speaking English. It's not going to be the English you hear from an Englishman. ''Russian English'' is hard for ears, same as any other ''xxxxx English''.
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Thyrzul - 01-14-2015
(01-14-2015, 02:13 PM)Black Widow Wrote: Exiles are a satellite faction like the Council, the council use BS so why not Exiles.
The Council has two systems, Exiles have none (currently somewhat dwelling in one of our own, btw). The Council has enough caps to keep one of their systems for two decades already against the game's biggest navy, the Exiles have a total of two battleships inRP, the stationary ones in-game. Yeah, a lot of similarities...
@OP
Adding Kusari to Exile ZoI and advancing their story would be a good idea. I do not agree with your second point however, in case of battleships because of what I wrote above, and in case of battlecruisers is because as far as I know they were designed and developed by the KNF after Gallia taking over the Tau systems, so by no chance would Exiles have something which didn't exist in times they were still KNF.
Little addition after reading WPeregrine's post...
@OP
Adding Kusari to Exile ZoI and advancing their story would be a good idea. I do not agree with your second point however, in case of battleships because of what I wrote above, and in case of battlecruisers is because as far as I know they were designed and developed by the KNF after Gallia taking over the Tau systems, so by no chance would Exiles have something which didn't exist in times they were still KNF.
Little addition after reading WPeregrine's post...
(01-14-2015, 08:04 PM)WPeregrine Wrote: As a final remark, one alternative that I suggest is to make the Exiles drop the "Imperial Recovery" thing (as the main promoters of the idea are somewhat gone), and make a full anti-gallic force.
The idea of a fleet of "samurai warriors", that were faced with the Gallics during their war, and decide that there is no greater virtue to be the best at taking down the "mightiest enemy" in Sirius. A conversion from "imperial radicals" to "warrior race radicals".
While the Colonials have to protect their people and keep Coronado safe, and the Council prefers to keep their forces hidden until that (so far away) turnaround in the Gallic expansion, the Exiles could be the ones with nothing to lose, but with much to gain from taking the front line and acquiring honor by foiling the Gallic plans.
No. Just please no. We already have more than enough anti-gallic factions (aka half of Sirius), throwing one more onto the pile won't help with activity issues. It doesn't for Council, even despite we are supposed to be the main anti-gallic faction imo. Instead I would favor scenarios where the Exiles manage to initiate the same thing in Kusari the Council plans to in Gallia, battles escalating inside the house, maybe do a three way civil war with BD involved, as has been suggested in earlier developement concept discussions thread. But no, one more or less gallia-hating faction won't make a difference.
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Zed26 - 01-14-2015
(01-14-2015, 09:06 PM)Geolog Wrote: Play the SP again. You'll see the Rheinland and Kusari storyline chars have German and Japanese accents.
Yeah, it's about time I played the SP for the nostalgia. Nothing wrong with accents, but I can't recall actual Japanese. Player speech isn't the change I'd suggest first because people are entitled to their RP.
In fact, it's more the perception that the existing RP culture is rigid and requires much more background knowledge to fit in when attempting original RP without getting criticized. Has any other house had such such a dramatic shift in politics, factions and story as Kusari - especially concerning Hogosha and the corps with their alliances with different factions? Will story developments in the update make a faction have to rewrite their info and alter who they can shoot?
Anyway, I don't mean to derail Toris' thread. It's just a deeper issue with Kusari activity that I'm not sure how to address without burdening existing players with compromises or putting a lot into orienting (no pun intended) interested players.
PS: if all the Kusari NPCs were voiced by Takei, I could just sit in New Tokyo all day.
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Lythrilux - 01-14-2015
(01-14-2015, 10:10 PM)Zed26 Wrote: PS: if all the Kusari NPCs were voiced by Takei, I could just sit in New Tokyo all day.
That'd be amazing. I'd make a faction centered around that.
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - WesternPeregrine - 01-14-2015
Lord Hakkera was voiced by Takei, if you must know.
Edit: Here, have a remix of it - https://soundcloud.com/mikkim/freelancer
RE: Kusari Exiles ID change - Fluffyball - 01-15-2015
(01-14-2015, 10:21 PM)WPeregrine Wrote: Lord Hakkera was voiced by Takei, if you must know.
Edit: Here, have a remix of it - https://soundcloud.com/mikkim/freelancer
Yeah. I've just realized that replaying SP about year ago. It was like: Oh myyyy...
(Inside jokes are good/bad.)
Also I agree on the problem. Myself, I see no problem with intergrating into Kusari, as I have knowledge about Japanese culture and their mentality. Provided I know how Japanese regarded (and disregarded, during Senji and Edo Periods) Emperor, I could easily "copy" the behaviour from the very beginning. Also, I find a lot of references in the vanilia Kusari - like Deshima Station is alusion to real life atificial island in Kyushu, where during whole Shogunate foreigners were allowed to stay.
Also I believe Kusari, as seen in SP, had something from the former samurai Japan. Lord Hakkera was probably daimyo (in our culture it could be "lord over knights" or factually "lord over minor lords"), so there is high probability that Imperial Kusari had fief system, independent from themselves, with own laws. With this in our mind, Kusari Naval Forces could be in fact local force, one per systems, united only by name - however, information on that is scarce or just hinted.
There is a lot of other references, because Imperial Kusari was probably inspired by Meiji Restoration, in which Emperor gained his former place - and there were a lot of loyalists to the Shogun (think of Dragons here), what lead to two major conflicts to restore Shogunate, both of which were in the end won by Imperial side (if you know the movie Last Samurai, the movie is in fact fusion of two different conflicts, a bit faked due to the fact that both sides were using firearms and cannons, unlike shown in the movie).
Shogun Hideyoshi is also a very prudent reference to the past, namely Hashiba Hideyoshi (a.k.a. Toyotomi Hideyoshi) - the second unifier of Japan (first being Oda Nobunaga, third and last being Tokugawa Ieyasu).
Quote:(...) For example, not to get too political, but having the intelligence branch named "Kempeitai" is the equivalent to naming BDM "Gestapo" + more historical atrocities (if the mods object to this, feel free to sub euphemisms).Funny fact: during whole WW2 (minus April to August 1945) Poland cooperated with Japan - or rather Polish Intel cooperated with one Kempeitai branch.
Also, good point here. Name is rather... not good from historical reasons (what is funny because of Germany), but I believe it renders current political situation in Kusari very good. But devs did wrong thing here, because Republic done wrong exiling Emperor - provided Kusari are like Japanese, keep in mind it was a tragedy for mere Japanese people that their emperor isn't god-like (not to mention some of them made suicide because of that) - a lot of people in Kusari would just put a major rebelion against Republic, as I pointed out treason against Emperor would be bigger crime than treason against the commander who defies the Emperor.
All in all, Kusari ex-subjects suffers no less than Bretonian subjects on Leeds, because His Majesty is not present. I don't believe loyal subjects would just be like "Oh, the Emperor is gone", but keep in mind Kusari may not share European/Western set of mind. We are talking about Empire, which is at least 200 (and even more, because there was Shogun and Emperor) years old and became a common life for gray Kusari subject.