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+--- Thread: Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House (/showthread.php?tid=15817)
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - wrathkin - 01-29-2009
My view of the Harvester thingie is clear, and has been stated before:
As a rp story, it was fun for a while.
As a faction, it fundamentally changes what it is to be a Zoner, and I dislike it.
The Zoner ID had a couple of problems. Bacause of the lack of enemies, it was interpreted as a free pass, and a lot of traders got it to powertrade under the 'protection' of that ID.
In the olden discussions about the Harvesters this was brought up as a good thing about the Harvesters - make an enemy for the Zoners to make the ID less attractive!
That's like friggin introducing foxes to Australia to combat the rabbit problem. It's ineffective, and it destroys other aspects instead. Ineffective - well, look around you. Lots and lots of 'Zoner' powertraders, although I hope .85 will fix that.
It destroys other aspects - the harvesters were unique, once. I could deliver food to Crete, I could run the line between the outer house systems and the edge. Sure I was robbed once in a while, but that's to be expected. Now, some of the Corsairs are allied to the Harvesters (and no, that's no secret. Seb was told of it in rp, by corsaris, and he reported it to the council and the Zoner Defence Comms), and the opt-out card seems to be taken away in .85
Misunderstand me correctly - I'm all for limiting the Zoners. BW transport should be the biggest trading craft in my opinion, and Zoners have little reason to run around in House core space except for passing to and from Freeports and other Zoner installations. However, taking away one of the defining factors of an entire NPC faction by dreaming up an enemy that has no grounding in the backstory and making it canon, no, I don't like that. Of course, y'all already knew what I think.
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - Quorg - 01-29-2009
There might be some who use the Zoner ID as a free pass to powertrade.
Not all Zoners who aren't hell-bent on starting a war with some toasters do, however. My trader is actually ID'd as a trader, and does not expect to be given any sort of immunity. My Zoner, a separate set of characters on a separate ship, is ID'd as a Zoner, and is a Zoner NOT in order to avoid conflict, but rather to avoid being forced into a conflict or other situation in which it wants no part.
To start any sort of Zoner government would cause damage to a lot of Zoner RP storylines; after all, Zoners became so largely to avoid living under a government and having to submit to politics guided by other (fallible) people.
If a any Zoner tries to exert his power over other Zoners by trying to institute some sort of government, you can expect the Robinsons to fight it tooth and nail; it is precisely that sort of thing that caused them to become Zoners in the first place. As for them, they will not participate in any action against any Harvesters unless the Harvesters open fire on non-hostile targets in the RFS Freedom's ZOI.
If some other Zoners want to fight Harvesters on their own, good luck to them, but there's no need to drag all of us with you.
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - Primus Avatar - 01-29-2009
We aren't so numerous, and besides, every Indy pirate has the RIGHT to attack zones war vessels.
every indy pirate has the RIGHT to demand cargo from zoners.
so just look at us as a band of indy pirates, if you're so desperate for justice. None told you have to
participate in the war, but if war comes to you then face it. Its just a game anyway.
And as i said, without the alpha code were not much of a threat to the whole zoner society, only
to zoner individuals we come across.
Why not fear the same way about phantoms.... they eat everyone too.
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - Drake - 01-29-2009
' Wrote:Why not fear the same way about phantoms.... they eat everyone too.
Actually they tend not to bother Zoners so much, I even remember a Phantom battleship moving to defend a Freeport when it was under Keeper assault.
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - Primus Avatar - 01-29-2009
' Wrote:Actually they tend not to bother Zoners so much, I even remember a Phantom battleship moving to defend a Freeport when it was under Keeper assault.
i don't really know how to explain that...makes no sense to me.:mellow:
btw. harvesters will attack zoners just like every other non-junker & non-corsair character in the game.
There is also nothing stopping regular junkers from doing the same, some might just like the shiny boxes
in your hold. Rules allow them to demand cargo, and if you refuse BOOM.
So nothing really changes in 4.85. The harvesters are the only ones being "nerfed" (since they wont be able to dock freeports.)
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - Malaclypse 666 - 01-30-2009
I will be honest, and I expect to receive flak about it.
I find the idea of Harvesters as hard-coded enemies of the Zoners to be extremely distasteful.
I would appreciate an Admin review of this decision, either for the upcoming mod, or for subsequent mods.
The Zoners will accrue one "enemy" as it is, the SCRA. I think that is entirely sufficient.
A little background from my perspective.
Scornstar first approached me about Harvesters attacking the TAZ, and about this whole "Alpha Code" phenomenon. I thought at the time that it would be a smashing yarn, which it started out as, but rather rapidly degraded due to disappearances by various of the principles during the story, including myself.
I was also in agreement concerning the "siege" of Gran Canaria by the Harvesters, which turned out to be a rather nice event. The whole concept began to go rapidly downhill from there...
Now, the part that really began to grate on me was Scornstar's adamant stance on this "Alpha Code". The damn Zoners don't have it! They never did. Had Scornstar acknowledged that, the whole hostility thing would have disappeared, instead of becoming some sort of bloody jihad against ALL Zoners, not just the TAZ.
There has been much ado lately about "Canon RP". Well, canon "says" that Zoners have no enemies. Now all of a sudden, the developers seem to be kowtowing to a single faction, in complete opposition and disregard of "canon RP". How the Harvesters and Scornstar managed to finagle this is beyond me. I resent it.
So, blame me for some of the initial "history" between the Harvies and the Zoners; but in no way no how do I concur with this new arrangement. In fact, I strenuously object. If it indeed comes to pass that all Zoners must suffer for a single RP story and attempt, then I apologize for my unwitting participation, and failure to stand up and be counted when this was first proposed and approved. (Of course, I wasn't asked for any input... Scornstar seems to have all the "suck" upstairs.)
If this comes to pass, I will be directing the TAZ to deal with the Harvesters in one way and one way only:
/IGNORE!
If that is sanctionable, then so be it.
Mal
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - Dusty Lens - 01-30-2009
That settles that then!
Harvester vs. Zoner war & Zoner House - Elvin - 01-30-2009
' Wrote:i don't really know how to explain that...makes no sense to me.:mellow:Phantoms are kind of neutral with Zoners... you may even meet them around Gran Canaria from time to time, they leave Zoners alone and alive, and Zoners do no "see" them.
btw. harvesters will attack zoners just like every other non-junker & non-corsair character in the game.
There is also nothing stopping regular junkers from doing the same, some might just like the shiny boxes
in your hold. Rules allow them to demand cargo, and if you refuse BOOM.
So nothing really changes in 4.85. The harvesters are the only ones being "nerfed" (since they won't be able to dock freeports.)
And yeah, anyone can go "boom" on Zoners, but there are consequences of course. It's REALLY bad RP to kill Zoner and then dock on Freeport for tea break.
(and if you ask me, theese powertraders with Zonedr ID... Kill them all, again and again, and all I will say is "Thanks" as I don't call these Zoners)
...And to the strange thing on the end of your message... You want to throw (or maybe maintain is better word) a war on Zoners as a whole faction, and you call restriction about Harvies docking FPs "nerf"? Well, I think theres something very wrong if you or other Harvie was docking Zoner bases till now.
-Sorry not trying to be flamy or angry, it just came out like that!
Anyways, Mal have a point up there.