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+--- Thread: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs (/showthread.php?tid=158361)
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Chronicron - 02-22-2018
Oh boy. This is one of those threads huh?
Well, restricting caps to their respective ZOI might reduce RP capabilities and thus reduce the overall server activity in the end. And blind jumping is still a thing. So no. This is irrelevant.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - LaWey - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 03:01 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:Bestests scientist work about it 24/7. SOON. Now it just you CENSURED REDACTED organ, CENSURED wire in it, and configure EM-cloaking field in your avionic computer.I love how people bring forward Jump Drives to provide inRP justification when even the technology itself isn't explained inRp yet. Nowhere. No origin, manufacturer, required level of technology for production, it's just a game mechanic popping out of nowhere without RP backing years ago and that gap has never been explained yet. That goes for all PoB manufactured modules, there can be found individual attempts to explain things, like mine on Cloaks from years ago based on what Huggie told me back then, but that's all. Nothing.
For JD your bring the REDACTED trade lane and gates, CENSURED it, get wires, pipe duct(blue better than black) and REDACTED it right to your ship core. If plasma fusion not ejected from core and you alive, you CENSURED it with gas-wrench. Now you can charge it and explore new horizons by CENSURED local gravitational anomaly (AGEIRA RECOMMENDED AVOID THAT).
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Jessitrescott - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 03:07 PM)Chronicron Wrote: Oh boy. This is one of those threads huh?
Well, restricting caps to their respective ZOI might reduce RP capabilities and thus reduce the overall server activity in the end. And blind jumping is still a thing. So no. This is irrelevant.
No Chron, No faction inrp would just blindly jump a battleship and its fleet just in the name of "research". Battleships are insanely hard to build and have a reason for being built that is fighting, the number of battleships in rp is less. lets not try to attach rp to jump drives.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Lythrilux - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 03:07 PM)Chronicron Wrote: Oh boy. This is one of those threads huh?
Well, restricting caps to their respective ZOI might reduce RP capabilities and thus reduce the overall server activity in the end. And blind jumping is still a thing. So no. This is irrelevant.
How does it reduce RP capabilities? What kind of high-quality RP can players do with the current allowances?
These kinds of ships don't contribute to activity. They can't use their IDs. They're just background annoyances that only bring down the quality of the region they infest. If even one of these ships converts into a ship that can actually interact in the region, it's improving server activity.
Also FYI if you blind jump to somewhere you shouldn't be, the admins won't sanction you for it. Used to jump Core caps blindly into systems with JGs and as long as we could explain things, it would be fine.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - SnakThree - 02-22-2018
I really hate seeing out-of-ZOI capital ships baiting for fights. It's horrible activity that rarely provides good interaction. And is some naysayers dares to defend that it might provide good interaction, get that darn SRP for ZOI expansion to back up good intentions.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Karlotta - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 03:04 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: What can't you do in a snub that you can do in a Cap in a system where you don't have ZoI? Your initial argument was about how shooting things is irrelevant if you recall. I'd consider anything but a Cap more realistic, as Caps are needed on the frontline or for defence. A snub is more nimble, faster, and can escape danger more easily. Better for recon.
I dunno... farm nomads GB and BS remains? RP as a cap? You can do them in a snub... but it wouldnt feel the same, man.
(02-22-2018, 03:04 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: And RP such as Valor Nomad hunters is crap.
Some BHG offshoot can build fleets to farm nomads for tech, but the biggest military force in Sirius bent on aggressive expansion through war couldn't or wouldn't. Because you say so. Right.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Sombs - 02-22-2018
The problem is that this thread is instrumentalising lolwuts who don't have a good grip on what they need to care for on a roleplay server. I've experienced just as many good encounters with capitals out of their ZoI as bad ones. I can't think of a single instance having had the need to report someone in a battleship who attacked out of ZoI. Many times I had to do it about people who used capitals in New York within their ZoI to attack without RP. In an ideal world, everyone plays along the rules and keeps the immersion at maximum. However not all people visiting the server know what is right or wrong, and not even the bittervets know everything out of their head, be it rules, lore or diplomacy between faction a and b.
Lolwuts will always exist. However let's not over-exaggerate the numbers here. I bet Thyr did when mentioning getting flooded about inRP complaints about indie Redemptions, and I bet Lyth did about the amounts of battleships that do a pit-stop at FP11. It's less than you want to make everyone believe. Yes, there are phases when it is more, when it is less, when it quality or lolwuttery. But do you really need to force limitations on people who didn't do anything wrong because of a little number of people who did?
Matter of factly, I wouldn't have thought about SRPing a Mako to get free ZoI if the Core Indie ID would have allowed to make exceptions. You know what is better than having the priviledge of playing in ~30 systems? Having the priviledge to do so in 157 systems. I'm pretty sure there will always be someone who is annoyed about seeing faction x's capital ship in region y. Just as I am sure those people should just mind their own business and either log to investigate and deal with it inRP, and if that is not possible because of the player being a lolwut, dealing with it adequately, or just do anything else than making a big drama about it. There is no need to enforce extra limits, pretending it was working well with Core Indie ID. Of course it "works" well when people don't even get the chance to surprise with quality when they are per rules not even encouraged to do so.
Let's not limit things more than necessary. Take things as they come or ignore them, but don't make the majority suffer for things a minority does. We have admins and mods who take care of the latter. Some people are already complaining to have nothing to log for, and threads like those don't do any favors for them. I personally wouldn't, if I was a newbie, bother grinding up two billions for another capital ship just to play under foreign lore in that region - the reason why I don't play Council Indie, by the way.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - HanCloudstone - 02-22-2018
I don't believe in RP generated by caps going out of their ZoI being exceptionally valuable. I don't believe all those incidents are outweighed by a handful of actually RPing players.
Furthermore, arguments against this change are contradicting themselves. It was pointed out by one of the previous posters.
I support this change.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Lythrilux - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Karlotta Wrote: I dunno... farm nomads GB and BS remains? RP as a cap? You can do them in a snub... but it wouldnt feel the same, man.
Why can't they do that in a local ship? It's far more productive to region RP and activity.
(02-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Some BHG offshoot can build fleets to farm nomads for tech, but the biggest military force in Sirius bent on aggressive expansion through war couldn't or wouldn't. Because you say so. Right.
Haha please. Your ad-homien grasping at straws doesn't detract from the fact that Gallia being so far away from the Omicrons, with no friendly parties there, wouldn't be able to support or conceal a Valor in that region. In most cases actually, it's an independent pilot who claims to be a "defector" that's abandoning the Crown to shoot Nomads, which makes it even more shaky. Secondly, Valors aren't equipped to survive the Edge Worlds. AP-Line is.
(02-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: The problem is that this thread is instrumentalising lolwuts who don't have a good grip on what they need to care for on a roleplay server. I've experienced just as many good encounters with capitals out of their ZoI as bad ones. I can't think of a single instance having had the need to report someone in a battleship who attacked out of ZoI. Many times I had to do it about people who used capitals in New York within their ZoI to attack without RP. In an ideal world, everyone plays along the rules and keeps the immersion at maximum. However not all people visiting the server know what is right or wrong, and not even the bittervets know everything out of their head, be it rules, lore or diplomacy between faction a and b.
Are you reading your own post? You are admitting these people are lolwuts and problematic players. It's not about giving them a chance to "prove" themselves - something which they can easily do within their own ZoI anyway - but stopping the problem before it happens. Preventive measures against headaches. This isn't an ideal world. We have the ID system to put limitations in place to prevent abuse and misuse. I have had to report many ships that have broken their IDs because they've been outside of their ZoI.
(02-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Lolwuts will always exist. However let's not over-exaggerate the numbers here. I bet Thyr did when mentioning getting flooded about inRP complaints about indie Redemptions, and I bet Lyth did about the amounts of battleships that do a pit-stop at FP11. It's less than you want to make everyone believe. Yes, there are phases when it is more, when it is less, when it quality or lolwuttery. But do you really need to force limitations on people who didn't do anything wrong because of a little number of people who did?
I'm not exaggerating. Neither is Thyr, because I can vouch that I have actually seen multiple Council caps in the Omicrons which I have had to deal with. If anything, you're trying to downplay the issue. And yes, we absolutely do need to force limitations on people. Your point that there are moments when it gets worse is exactly the reason why something needs to be done. There is the capability there for it. There shouldn't be.
(02-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Matter of factly, I wouldn't have thought about SRPing a Mako to get free ZoI if the Core Indie ID would have allowed to make exceptions. You know what is better than having the priviledge of playing in ~30 systems? Having the priviledge to do so in 157 systems. I'm pretty sure there will always be someone who is annoyed about seeing faction x's capital ship in region y. Just as I am sure those people should just mind their own business and either log to investigate and deal with it inRP, and if that is not possible because of the player being a lolwut, dealing with it adequately, or just do anything else than making a big drama about it. There is no need to enforce extra limits, pretending it was working well with Core Indie ID. Of course it "works" well when people don't even get the chance to surprise with quality when they are per rules not even encouraged to do so.
But The Core ID did have restrictions when you SRP'd your Mako. It couldn't go into systems containing a jump gate. Which is, funnily enough, less systems than what the current ID restriction allows (you can go to Omega-3 and Omega-7 now). I didn't see any huge complaints about how the restriction utterly crippled the faction and made it less fun, or anything similar to that. If Core ships have a need to leave their ZoI, they can use snubs, gunboats and transports. There's no reason why an indie Mako should leave the Omicron/Omegas. Heck, even though The Core official ID can take it's caps anywhere, we rarely ever feel the need to.
Why should we be legitimising these caps and treating them as inRP? They make no roleplay sense. My role as a player in the Omicrons isn't to play RP police and just delete inconsistencies. They're ignoring what's encouraged by their IDs. As far as I'm concerned, they're all lolwuts.
(02-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Let's not limit things more than necessary. Take things as they come or ignore them, but don't make the majority suffer for things a minority does. We have admins and mods who take care of the latter. Some people are already complaining to have nothing to log for, and threads like those don't do any favors for them. I personally wouldn't, if I was a newbie, bother grinding up two billions for another capital ship just to play under foreign lore in that region - the reason why I don't play Council Indie, by the way.
There are too many cases of this and it's getting to the point where something needs to be done. Roleplay wise, it's not like any foreign caps are allowed into places that aren't their ZoI, otherwise, they face a fine and escort out - or even outright destruction.
I can't keep ignoring this stupidity. I tried but I'm at the end of my wick. If it's not apparent, native faction player bases in the Omicrons have been dwindling (except Nomads). Foreign caps coming to the Omicrons and being stupid, instead of making local ships, is neither helping or giving people "things to log for". If people want to treat the Omicrons as a foreign cap free-for-all lolwut memeland, then why even bother.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Lythrilux - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 03:37 PM)HanCloudstone Wrote: I don't believe in RP generated by caps going out of their ZoI being exceptionally valuable. I don't believe all those incidents are outweighed by a handful of actually RPing players.
Furthermore, arguments against this change are contradicting themselves. It was pointed out by one of the previous posters.
I support this change.
This. The people trying to argue against this don't understand how heavily they are contradicting their own arguments...