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+--- Thread: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. (/showthread.php?tid=159287)
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Thyrzul - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: Solution: Increase the price of POB deployment. Create a new high price commodity, that would be required for building POB. Make it cost 10-50M credits, that should decrease the spam significantly.
I like this one. Make it 50mil, Core upgrades themselves are over 100mil each either way.
(EDIT: Currently PoB construction credit costs are just slightly above 1mil with basic maintenance up to 8mil HP, this calculation does not account for further maintenance past that though.)
(EDIT: Currently PoB construction credit costs are just slightly above 1mil with basic maintenance up to 8mil HP, this calculation does not account for further maintenance past that though.)
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - evanz - 03-21-2018
1 then 2, dont do 3
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Antonio - 03-21-2018
All POBs should require a commodity costing 100 millions before deployment.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - ronillon - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 11:34 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:Just some numbers for convenience:(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: Solution: Increase the price of POB deployment. Create a new high price commodity, that would be required for building POB. Make it cost 10-50M credits, that should decrease the spam significantly.
I like this one. Make it 50mil, Core upgrades themselves are over 100mil each either way.
(EDIT: Currently PoB construction credit costs are just slightly above 1mil with basic maintenance up to 8mil HP, this calculation does not account for further maintenance past that though.)
To build a Core 1 POB and bring it to full HP of 8 millions, you need following (price depending on where you buy the stuff):
Base Construction Platform ship = 3.400.090 SC
Initial POB deployment = 202.500 SC
Crew = 400.000 SC to 600.000 SC
FOW = 51.600 SC to 1.186.000 SC
Repair RA = 66.750 SC
Total sum = 4.120.940 SC to 10.910.680 SC
BUT only Initial POB deployment and Repair RA are consumed by building POB (269.250 SC), the rest you can use over and over again.
So the actual cost is 270.000 SC for 4.5 days. And 67.000 SC for another 4.5 days. And 67.000 SC for another 4.5 days.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Laura C. - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: Spawning Core1 POB is dirty cheap: 202.500 S.C. and it lasts 10+ hours without ANY maintenance. While it provides docking point and protection. This is enough for one mining session, where you can make roughly 200-500M S.C.
Solution: Increase the price of POB deployment. Create a new high price commodity, that would be required for building POB. Make it cost 10-50M credits, that should decrease the spam significantly.
If you want to use word significantly, then the special commodity must cost 100-500 million. 10-50 million is literally a change these days, you can earn it in like an hour. And like you yourself calculated, even with 50 million per construction it still worth it to make expendable one day use base because you can make hundreds of millions during one mining session which easily cover the costs.
EDIT: Unfortunately with high construction costs we are back at problem with POB dramas. If someone will invest lot of money from the beginning and then the base is destroyed just few days later, it will bring again a lot of negative feelings.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Thyrzul - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:15 PM)ronillon Wrote:(03-21-2018, 11:34 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:Just some numbers for convenience:(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: Solution: Increase the price of POB deployment. Create a new high price commodity, that would be required for building POB. Make it cost 10-50M credits, that should decrease the spam significantly.
I like this one. Make it 50mil, Core upgrades themselves are over 100mil each either way.
(EDIT: Currently PoB construction credit costs are just slightly above 1mil with basic maintenance up to 8mil HP, this calculation does not account for further maintenance past that though.)
To build a Core 1 POB and bring it to full HP of 8 millions, you need following (price depending on where you buy the stuff):
Base Construction Platform ship = 3.400.090 SC
Initial POB deployment = 202.500 SC
Crew = 400.000 SC to 600.000 SC
FOW = 51.600 SC to 1.186.000 SC
Repair RA = 66.750 SC
Total sum = 4.120.940 SC to 10.910.680 SC
BUT only Initial POB deployment and Repair RA are consumed by building POB (269.250 SC), the rest you can use over and over again.
So the actual cost is 270.000 SC for 4.5 days. And 67.000 SC for another 4.5 days. And 67.000 SC for another 4.5 days.
Commodity
Reinforced Alloy
Crew
PlasFoam Conduits
Industrial Hardware
High Performance Alloy
Optronic Arrays
Heat Sinks
Fusion Diodes
Reinforced Alloy
Crew
PlasFoam Conduits
Industrial Hardware
High Performance Alloy
Optronic Arrays
Heat Sinks
Fusion Diodes
Consumption (units)
353
400
140
140
140
50
50
30
400
140
140
140
50
50
30
Cost A (credits)
88 333
800 000
35 000
28 000
42 000
17 500
25 000
30 000
800 000
35 000
28 000
42 000
17 500
25 000
30 000
Cost B (credits)
114 833
820 000
536 200
201 600
120 400
136 750
66 500
124 650
820 000
536 200
201 600
120 400
136 750
66 500
124 650
Actual price can depend on many things, source distance is just one of them, how much you want to pay traders for transporting is another, and thus the price can vary throughout quite a wide range. If we throw all those factors away and consider only what's equal among all bases, the default commodity costs per unit multiplied by the required amount, we get the Cost A column, totalling costs at 1 065 833 Credits. If we consider the location a few of us in the Council decided to chose for a future project, we get the Cost B column, totalling costs at 2 120 933 Credits.
Reinforced Alloy commodity requirement is calculated with the following equation: RA=100+(8000000-400000)/30000.
My calculation does not include the consumed FOW during the process, but it shouldn't be difficult to calculate that, nor should affect these values too significantly.
Either way, it's nowhere around Core upgrade module costs.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Darkseid667 - 03-21-2018
I completely disagree with the notion that illegal POBs in the mining fields kill the interaction. Quite the oppsite, actually, from my plentiful experience.
The fact that the law enforcers can't patrol the fields 24/7 as stated above should give away what the underlying problem really is. And try to find a miner or transport from morning to early afternoon on a workday at MET.
From a RP perspective it would make much more sense to build short-lived, disposable POBs in the fields especially as a local unlawful faction which then should be provided with corresponding mining bonuses (mining bonuses really don't make much sense) and corresponding mining ships and selling points.
I therefore +1 for change number 2.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - sindroms - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: Regarding those pirates, like I said, I do not play one, but shouldnt they prey on haulers instead of miners? No matter where the mining POB is, or whether there is a POB at all, once the ore is mined, it needs to be hauled to sellpoint. That should be the place and time pirates should strike.
Also, shouldnt a miner under fire docking on POB be PvP dead? Also if POB has shield, pirate can deny docking by activating it by single shot.
I always meet more players near mining POB, than when hauling the ore to sellpoint or trading in general. It IS an ACTIVITY HUB.
Why should a miner be exempt from player interaction if it is not in their favor? Why should a miner be completely pvp safe? If you want that sort of gameplay, restart a rank <30 miner in Penny.
This is like saying Outcasts should not pirate IMG in Tau 23, or Mollys shouldn't hit people in Dublin. That is pure nonsense.
Furthermore, a miner with a POB in the field will never come under fire and thus will never be PVP-dead, since they can dock the moment a red contact appears 15k away from them.
Attacking a POB in order to deny docking by raising the shield multiple times has been sanctioned before.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - sindroms - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:43 PM)Darkseid667 Wrote: I completely disagree with the notion that illegal POBs in the mining fields kill the interaction. Quite the oppsite, actually, from my plentiful experience.
The fact that the law enforcers can't patrol the fields 24/7 as stated above should give away what the underlying problem really is. And try to find a miner or transport from morning to early afternoon on a workday at MET.
From a RP perspective it would make much more sense to build short-lived, disposable POBs in the fields especially as a local unlawful faction and that should be provided with corresponding mining bonuses (mining bonuses really don't make much sense) and corresponding ships and selling points.
I therefore +1 for change number 2.
The thread has nothing to do with roleplay laws.
The thread is about putting a quickdok point inside a mining field.
Ergo, the fix where Mining Ships were made undockable.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - ronillon - 03-21-2018
(03-21-2018, 12:36 PM)Laura C. Wrote:(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: Spawning Core1 POB is dirty cheap: 202.500 S.C. and it lasts 10+ hours without ANY maintenance. While it provides docking point and protection. This is enough for one mining session, where you can make roughly 200-500M S.C.
Solution: Increase the price of POB deployment. Create a new high price commodity, that would be required for building POB. Make it cost 10-50M credits, that should decrease the spam significantly.
If you want to use word significantly, then the special commodity must cost 100-500 million. 10-50 million is literally a change these days, you can earn it in like an hour. And like you yourself calculated, even with 50 million per construction it still worth it to make expendable one day use base because you can make hundreds of millions during one mining session which easily cover the costs.
EDIT: Unfortunately with high construction costs we are back at problem with POB dramas. If someone will invest lot of money from the beginning and then the base is destroyed just few days later, it will bring again a lot of negative feelings.
Do not forget that POBs are not just for mining. The point is to make the cost reasonable. Less than 300k is not reasonable at all, nor is 10milion. But over 100M seems too much to me. Regular month maintenance RA+FOW for Core 2 is 110M, Core 1 is just a little cheaper because you need only 50% of FOW.