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+--- Thread: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships (/showthread.php?tid=162196)
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - Reddy - 06-22-2018
hurricane missles are hard to flak and harder to spot in fleet fights than nightmare torpedos. they are most certainly a deadly pvp tool.
suppose you do change hurricanes splash dmage, then it will be nightmares being used. they do 1.7mill dmage and have a massive splash zone. will there be more complaints then when they finish missions twice as fast?
you can have a cloaked snub trigger the mission, the NPCs just stay at one spot when 2 bs launch 2 nightmares and decimate them in seconds.
the issue is not the missles, its the frequency of murduk spawns. i dunno when it was changed but when me and a friend did missions in delta 6-7 months ago we go frequent spawns of duks. they weren't really difficult for 2 nephs with 4 cerbs and prims
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - A.B. - 06-22-2018
(06-21-2018, 10:36 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: The spawn of Marduks is not related to the reward, but to the difficulty. Any mission ranging from 40 to 50 can spawn Marduks. Higher is more likely.
Funny. I remember being told by Devs that they cannot adjust credits for low-tier missions (be honest: getting killed as VHF by swarm of lvl 19 npcs in 300k mission that barely refills your ammo has always been a joke) because that would influence spawns.
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - Sombs - 06-22-2018
(06-22-2018, 08:01 AM)Reddy Wrote: hurricane missles are hard to flak and harder to spot in fleet fights than nightmare torpedos. they are most certainly a deadly pvp tool.
suppose you do change hurricanes splash dmage, then it will be nightmares being used. they do 1.7mill dmage and have a massive splash zone. will there be more complaints then when they finish missions twice as fast?
you can have a cloaked snub trigger the mission, the NPCs just stay at one spot when 2 bs launch 2 nightmares and decimate them in seconds.
the issue is not the missles, its the frequency of murduk spawns. i dunno when it was changed but when me and a friend did missions in delta 6-7 months ago we go frequent spawns of duks. they weren't really difficult for 2 nephs with 4 cerbs and prims
Of course missions aren't difficult if you spam the most tanky battleship with the highest DPS loadouts at NPCs.
The idea behind the missions in Discovery is to provide an optional challenge. Doing anti-VHF missions in a VHF is a certain challenge - although it can be done alone, as Vasko showed. The less dodgy the ship class is, the harder the missions are because dodging is less of a factor to win the mission - Hitpoints and DPS are, in that case. A lone Light Battleship with any non-Hurricane/non-Nightmare loadout will have troubles already when it starts fighting Corsair Cruiser groups in Omega-49, for example. It is certainly doable - I did that quite often on my own. A Nephilim in Delta can easily take on Nomad Cruiser groups, but a group of Marduks are different. It will most certainly require at least one second ship - be it a snub that pulls the aggro or a second Nephilim that offers Hitpoints and DPS.
And there you already see the idea behind it: Difficult missions require more than one person, and that is exactly the way it should be. Hurricanes negate this, and that is bad. There is however a notable difference between doing missions solo with Hurricanes and doing missions solo with Nightmares. The latter is a bad idea when solo.
Matter of factly, I do suggest the removal or decrease of the Hurricane AoE damage. It would fix this issue. Nightmares can be untouched because they are highly inefficient in this scenario. They were never meant to be anti-NPC missiles. They simply got un-purposed this way. In games like Discovery, anything that can be exploited, will get exploited.
I would actually change the general concept of the missions. Right now, it is looking like this:
Code:
0-29 = Fighters
30 - 34 = Fighters + Gunboats
35 - 39 = Gunboats + Cruisers/Destroyers/Battlecruisers
40 - 50 = Cruisers/Destroyers/Battlecruisers + Battleships/CarriersYou can check this in the RANDOMMISSIONS folder of Discovery, by the way. Of course battleships will only spawn if said faction has them (Molly 40+ missions always spawn Scyllas only).
I believe the encounter groups can actually be adjusted to ensure only certain ship types to spawn, I'd need to look deeper into all ini files of the RANDOMMISSIONS folder. In a way to make pretty clear from wich difficulty rank which group would spawn, and only that group to spawn. HOWEVER, since this would result in making the farming of Marduks VERY EASY, I'd drastically reduce the chance of them dropping Nomad Battleship Remains - so people CAN do Marduk missions in Delta, but for more effective farming, they would require to enter the nomad realm, which would result in more time for people to intercept the invaders. Meaning it leaves you two choices:
a) Do less risky missions in Omicron Delta as FP11 and Yaren are merely 30K away, however with less BSR drops.
b) Dare to enter the nomad systems to get guaranteed BS remains, but exposing themselves to natural defenses of the systems, the likeliness of Nomad players intercepting them AND not having a base to dock in Iota, Major and Psi. I wish Minor could be listed here as well, but sadly Capetown and the junker base have been placed there, which devalues the system's risk.
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - Jessitrescott - 06-22-2018
didn't titan have a plugin for code weapons that stopped people from farming code guns with dual hurricane loadouts ?
if i remember correctly the plugin worked something like this- if you shot battleships which dropped code guns with hurricane missiles, the loot will also get destroyed.
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - sasapinjic - 06-22-2018
Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions - i am against this , to radical and it will cause demand to do similar things in some other areas , ( for example , i may ask for only Battleships to spawn in Leeds for my RNS-Meduse , because i hate NPC Cruisers and particularity Gunboats).
Increase chances for Battleships to spawn , especially in highest ranking missions - i can support this .
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - Lythrilux - 06-22-2018
(06-22-2018, 09:15 AM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: The idea behind the missions in Discovery is to provide an optional challenge. Doing anti-VHF missions in a VHF is a certain challenge - although it can be done alone, as Vasko showed.
I think that's entirely subjective. In the past at least, missions were just simply another means of earning money. I'd use my Legate in the past to farm missions against Core NPCs for credits and pilots, and make a neat profit. I could do these solo (most of the time). But as I could always respawn and try again, the only time I felt like I was in any danger was when Core players would rock up into Gamma on Threshers to raid Legates whilst they were doing missions. Once again, it's the players who provide the risk when it comes to PvE. Player numbers in PvE can just stack and remove the difficulty entirely. But there will always be the threat of an organised force of players.
(06-22-2018, 09:15 AM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: And there you already see the idea behind it: Difficult missions require more than one person, and that is exactly the way it should be. Hurricanes negate this, and that is bad. There is however a notable difference between doing missions solo with Hurricanes and doing missions solo with Nightmares. The latter is a bad idea when solo.
But Hurricanes do not negate this. It honestly sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. Hurricanes make missions easier yes, as compared to doing them with other heavies, but they still require skill to pull off if done solo. And during and after the mission, as a light Battleship with Hurricanes, you are massively vulnerable to a Battleship with a PvP-orientated loadout. That is the risk you take to be better at PvE. That is why, irrespective of what you're claiming, you WILL see Hurricane Battleships doing missions in groups so that they aren't fish in a barrel for any potential hostile Battleship.
(06-22-2018, 09:15 AM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Matter of factly, I do suggest the removal or decrease of the Hurricane AoE damage. It would fix this issue. Nightmares can be untouched because they are highly inefficient in this scenario. They were never meant to be anti-NPC missiles. They simply got un-purposed this way. In games like Discovery, anything that can be exploited, will get exploited.
An issue implies there's a problem in the first place, which there is not. As I said before: you want a risk for mission takers? Be that risk. The irony that you, who usually accuses people of this, wants to change game mechanics when the solution lies in the hands of the players. And so what if Hurricanes were not meant to be anti-NPC missiles initially? You could argue the same with every Capital turret in the mod (or perhaps, the mass hoarding of sci-data by a few individuals), don't be so overdramatic and call it an exploit. For factions with light Battleships, they've found a great usage for PvE,
(06-22-2018, 09:15 AM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: I believe the encounter groups can actually be adjusted to ensure only certain ship types to spawn, I'd need to look deeper into all ini files of the RANDOMMISSIONS folder. In a way to make pretty clear from wich difficulty rank which group would spawn, and only that group to spawn. HOWEVER, since this would result in making the farming of Marduks VERY EASY, I'd drastically reduce the chance of them dropping Nomad Battleship Remains - so people CAN do Marduk missions in Delta, but for more effective farming, they would require to enter the nomad realm, which would result in more time for people to intercept the invaders. Meaning it leaves you two choices:
a) Do less risky missions in Omicron Delta as FP11 and Yaren are merely 30K away, however with less BSR drops.
b) Dare to enter the nomad systems to get guaranteed BS remains, but exposing themselves to natural defenses of the systems, the likeliness of Nomad players intercepting them AND not having a base to dock in Iota, Major and Psi. I wish Minor could be listed here as well, but sadly Capetown and the junker base have been placed there, which devalues the system's risk.
Why just not replace Cruisers with Battleships and decrease the spawn? It'd be an easier solution than that. There are already missions that take you far from bases and close to hostile bases, as I have said. Many times I intercepted Zoner and Order farmers on a Core ship, and interrupted their farming operations. The inherent risk shouldn't be wholly reliant on the defences in those systems (and let's be honest, they're not really anything more potent than a minor annoyance). It's the job of players to be that risk. On the one hand, the addition of Capetown and Taracon has given IDs more places to dock in Minor, but on the other, it shouldn't be making Nomad/Wild players log any less.
A change I would like to see, would be for more purely Battleship missions that can be taken in Delta, but take place in the surrounding systems. This increases risk, without sacrificing convenience.
Honestly Sombra, it just seems like you can't handle a change which has actually made farming better for ALL parties (the farmers, and the people ambushing the farmers). What you are failing to understand is that Core is on BOTH sides of the fence here. Core both farms remains and ambushes farmers. So what if people don't spend ages flying all the way to 99/whatever to shoot at a few NPCs (and at high pops won't get the chance to do that at all)? The alternative is frequent, consistent activity in Omicron Delta which services more interaction and activity overall. In fact, I think a fault of the previous system was the bias in almost exclusive facilitating Nomad/Wild players intercepting farmers, whereas right now it allows the possibility for all IDs in the Omicron region to intercept farmers. There is actually a greater risk because you run the chance of meeting more hostile IDs.
(06-22-2018, 11:52 AM)sasapinjic Wrote: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions - i am against this , to radical and it will cause demand to do similar things in some other areas , ( for example , i may ask for only Battleships to spawn in Leeds for my RNS-Meduse , because i hate NPC Cruisers and particularity Gunboats).
It's really not the same thing. Nomad Cruiser Missions themselves are basically beefier gunboat missions, but with the same payoff and the annoyance of having them take the place of battleships spawning. Bretonian Cruiser NPCs drop a multitude of goods that make Cruiser missions worthwhile in themselves - Nomad Cruisers don't.
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - Sombs - 06-22-2018
The wiser gives way. Have fun accusing the community of not doing the job you want them to do.
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - Major. - 06-22-2018
(06-22-2018, 01:59 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Have a nice weekend and enjoy making yourself ridiculous infront of the community for blaming them for not playing your game.
Who said that we, the community support your statement?
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - A.B. - 06-22-2018
Lyth Wrote:I think that's entirely subjective. In the past at least, missions were just simply another means of earning money.
What about making NPC missions being actually profitable? Just a question here, because getting the reasonable credits for killing bad guys wouldn't really hurt, especially when we are speaking about population barely going over 40.
I've played Elite: Dangerous for a few months already and I say that's what I missed as Bounty Hunter the most: the REASONABLE pay for killing bad guys that aren't players. Just push the Pods' prices at all prison stations (and their unlawful counterparts) to Pennsylvania levels. Trading and mining still gives way more money than farming NPCs around.
RE: Remove Nomad Cruiser Missions / Replace Nomad Cruisers in Missions with Battleships - Lythrilux - 06-22-2018
(06-22-2018, 01:59 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Lyth, I get it: You expect other people to be a risk while spending most of your time on forum discussions. Why do you expect other people to be more ambitious ingame than yourself? Don't you see the issue there, especially when the player count isn't reaching 75 currently? Blaming players to not do the job YOU want them to do is pretty cheap, and it absolutely ignores the fact that the game offers enough internal mechanics to not force players to do that job.
At this point I think discussing with you is a waste of time, since your points of view are so far away from the meta and the actual real possibilities that this is leading nowhere. Have a nice weekend and enjoy making yourself ridiculous infront of the community for blaming them for not playing your game. Some people here actually try to get their factions fit into the game, not the other way around.
What a mess of a response; you've contradicted yourself. Do you realise that you've agreed with me and that the 'problem', if any, on your part is player related? I'm not asking you to be as ambitious as me - and let's be honest, logging in to hunt farmers is not being 'ambitious', and I'm not as ambitious as I used to be, it's just not being lazy and playing your role. If you can't step up to the plate, admit it. Just don't cry about it, blame mechanics/people, and throw ad hominems, when the fault lies on your own shoulders. The player count is what it is because of the telegram ban, and summertime. Don't blame it on Missions of all things, that's just stupid. And lol, you're saying that my interpretation of the current mechanics is to force players to play in a certain way, whilst you have been arguing that players should not have the freedom of choice to do anti-Nomad missions in Delta.
The community already does the job without me needing to tell them to do it. People log Core, Order, Corsair, AI and Aoi ships to interrupt people farming. It's just you who can't be bothered.
We agree on one thing: your contribution to the discussion was a wasteful, as you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and fabricate and overdramatise issues that don't exist. Stop whining, play the game, and be your role by logging in to ambush farmers. How about this weekend, you make that your goal.
(06-22-2018, 02:10 PM)A.B. Wrote:Lyth Wrote:I think that's entirely subjective. In the past at least, missions were just simply another means of earning money.
What about making NPC missions being actually profitable? Just a question here, because getting the reasonable credits for killing bad guys wouldn't really hurt, especially when we are speaking about population barely going over 40.
I've played Elite: Dangerous for a few months already and I say that's what I missed as Bounty Hunter the most: the REASONABLE pay for killing bad guys that aren't players. Just push the Pods' prices at all prison stations (and their unlawful counterparts) to Pennsylvania levels. Trading and mining still gives way more money than farming NPCs around.
NPC Missions used to be super profitable, comparable to if not better than trading. They got a big nerf though unfortunately. I think they were much better before, as you'd have things like Ranseurs and Legates farming in their respective home systems and creating lots of ambient activity.