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+---- Thread: Mining (/showthread.php?tid=20031)
Mining - Othman - 05-03-2009
The average trading profits should be around 30-35 millions or so per hour, if we need to make a comparison with mining. While the mining is still a safer way to generate cash, it is also more tiresome to use your mining laser and mine the bloody raw materials. I'm in favour of increasing the mining profits a little bit more. We have never had a significant amount of miners ever, have we?
Mining - Robert.Fitzgerald - 05-03-2009
Quote:EDIT: Another thing I've noticed: you need to have exactly the right ID/IFF for a particular commodity to get the mining bonus. The same thing applies to mining lasers/mining ship - you've got to have both. Mining lasers have no effect if they are in another ship (except the some junker ships like the csv).
So miner escorts can't help with mining with mining laser turrets? Aww = / Better mount transport turrets back on my Freelancer. Also, the CSF doesn't have a mining bonus, I think.
On topic: 15-20million per hour does seem a bit low for the target profits. Trading seems to be 25-30 million for most routes, so that could be a better target to aim for.
Mining - Encheta - 05-03-2009
' Wrote:On topic: 15-20million per hour does seem a bit low for the target profits. Trading seems to be 25-30 million for most routes, so that could be a better target to aim for.
I agree. The average trade leg looking at flcompanion is 200c/sec, which for a 5k trans is 36mil an hour. Plus, it's not all that uncommon for legs to be even 250c/sec if not more..
' Wrote:Nerfing decisions are made based on this target weighted with the likely risk to the miners. As o49 field is in a neutral (possibly allied) area, the risk to miners is basically nil and thus the field was nerfed to somewhere around 15-20 million per hour.
Granted, o49 is rather secluded without pirates, but I beleive it just looks so bad and bugged as it's currently the feild with the closest profits to trading. Once all the feilds yeild the same profits (approximately) everyone should spread out across sirius and it'll be fine again. That being said, we have to be careful not to make mining look like too much effort for the profit when compared to trading, else the mining population that's exploded to life on the server is going to wither and die out to 4.84 levels over the course of about 3-4months.
Mining - Derkylos - 05-03-2009
Making all mining profits dependant on mining+hauling is flawed due to the RP nature of the mining corporations.
Sure, something like IMG, BMM, etc is not quite so constrained, as people will not "what the..." at one of their ships out of their direct ZoI, but, considering something like Kruger...they are almost a purely in-house company (constrained by the Liberty war and Sigma-13...how much does Leeds buy diamonds for, now?...).
It's great when you can rustle up members of the appropriate trade faction to haul for you, but it's hard enough to get people from your own faction to play at the same time as you, let alone get people from your "allies" to give up their more profitable trade runs to cater to your RP/profits.
Additionally, if it is more profitable to mine+haul, it becomes far simpler to just haul. Most fields are in the vicinity of bases which sell the mineable commodity for a cheap price, anyway.
Mined materials should sell for a reasonable price (considering the drops in most fields, 300-500 seems "reasonable") either in the same system (but at a sizable distance-re: 49), or in an adjacent system. Don't particularly want to see those mining ships running all over Sirius trading, just to make the "mining" aspect profitable.
Finally, I concur with the idea that there should be more profitable locations than just Tau-23.
I tested all the IMG mining centers last beta, and came back with the following results: Omega-7 was worthless. Nearest place that gave a sale price over 100 for any of the commodities was New Berlin. Cambridge was probably the 3rd best location, but, even there, the density of shootable asteroids was sufficiently low that, combined with the drop rate, it wasn't really worth it (profit was some 300/unit). Dublin was second best with 400-500 credits/unit, still a little on the low side with shootable asteroids and drop rate.
I've not looked into diamond mining in Rheinland/the Omegas (seeing as they ain't our fields...yet), but I know for a fact that Tau-23 was regularly overrun by independent miners...now that trading is more spread out, hows about the same for mining?
Mining - Cosmos - 05-03-2009
Nice going on the whole 0-49 gets *Screwed* concept,
It was the only good mining route there and now its ruined.
Also it took about 4 minutes longer in 0-49 because You had to fly all the way back to the planet to sell the goods.
Nice going guys! your one step closer to making the mining Concept Fail.
Mining - aznremix416 - 05-03-2009
Yea, The Omega 49 mining was the only mining area that was up to speed with trading, it was balanced, and now it is no where as near as profitable. I mean, now with a miner ship, mining guns, IMg iff and IMG id i only get 30, and thats only some of the times, other times i get like 10 and even 5! comon, mining was actually fun and as profitable as trading at one time! And if there is a problem with people overcrowding the place, well spread out the mining areas, but other balanced mining locations in other 'empty' systems where no one ever goes to.
Mining - Unseelie - 05-03-2009
' Wrote:I suppose I should mention this: the current target profit per player when mining is 15 to 20 million per hour.That bothers me...as I was under the impression that mining was supposed to be as viable for earning money as trading 30-35 million an hour.. I'd like it to be more so, 40-45 million an hour, at least when mining groups get together.
Bottom line, trading is currently the primary source of income. If we want players to mine/trade to their preference(and I cannot imagine why we wouldn't want that), Mining should be on par. If its not on par, a lot of effort's been put into a system that only the diehard miners are going to do, its an economic enterprise, and people do need/want the money.
I still think it would be a great idea to have a couple mining spots where one miner can make a decent profit on their own, something around 25-30 million an hour, and I'm not at all convinced it unbalances anything else. For instance, Bornholm, seems to work without screwing anything else work. I'm sure we can find other places where such pocket systems can be set up.
On the 'risk' to miners, and the suggestion that its less dangerous than trading...Miners have to sit in one place. Lots of my miners won't get on any more, because the KNF have been known to camp the Stokes field. If there was a base nearby, this means they have the option of running and hiding, but that doesn't at all change the actual effect of enemy ships in the area: you can't mine while that's going on. Whether your dead or running, or hiding at a nearby base, you're mining has been stopped. If its a pirate, you're probably going to have to pay a fee or wait till they shove off, which could take quite a while, even docked safely on a base. And that is the risk of trading, too. You either die, and lose time, or you get pirated and lose money. Now, in the case of Trading, when you die, you lose an investment in money. When you die trading, you lose an investment in time, lots of it if you were nearly full. If time=money, then both risk money(or time)
Mining - Grumblesaur - 05-03-2009
Mining should be as rewarding, if not more than trading.
Why?
Trading: *F2* *F3* *Sell Cargo* Buy cargo*.
Mining: *Move to mining spot* *Shoot rocks* *tractor* *fly to nearby base* *sell cargo*
The thing about mining is, you can't just sit there and let the rocks mine themselves - it doesn't work like that. Trading is just hitting a few keys and letting autopilot take over.
Mining - Dusty Lens - 05-03-2009
*removes rant*
*smiles politely*
Mining - Encheta - 05-03-2009
' Wrote:Mining should be as rewarding, if not more than trading.
Why?
Trading: *F2* *F3* *Sell Cargo* Buy cargo*.
Mining: *Move to mining spot* *Shoot rocks* *tractor* *fly to nearby base* *sell cargo*
The thing about mining is, you can't just sit there and let the rocks mine themselves - it doesn't work like that. Trading is just hitting a few keys and letting autopilot take over.
That's what I call the "fun factor" of mining. You're more engaged in the game when mining compared to trading, making things more enjoyable. But! That little bit of extra "fun" isn't going to make up for the difference in money if the profits are half that of trading (if what cannon says is true), as well as the effort involved in making a relatively large (more than 3 players) mining party. Thats why I'm saying we have to be careful with this.
At the very most I think mining profits should be 10% under that of trading (this is per person when working in pairs. If that's the case in a trio or more one should be earning slightly more than trading IMO), and that is if they absolutely positively have to be less profitable. With that difference you'll see some miners turn back to trading, and any more than that and you'll probly see players going away in droves.