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+---- Thread: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge (/showthread.php?tid=204446)
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Czechmate - 08-27-2024
(08-24-2024, 01:27 PM)Fab Wrote:Yeah I supposed the philosophy has changed from enjoyment to balance + adding complexity and more nuanced interactions between ship classes. People will simply play less, or complain, but it is what it is - cruiser shields are just part of that trend. People who play more seriously will enjoy it more, us casuals will play less or quit PvP.(08-24-2024, 07:29 AM)Czechmate Wrote: Good thing for whom is the question - on average, caps are played way less last 2 patches especially by casual players (look at indie cap prefix log times)?
I think this has to do with the mod as a whole and not exclusively the capital ship changes. to be honest, 4.95 combat was fun but very simple. now you've to much more carefully consider your options, and not just WASD strafe/steer and keep firing at your reticle.
I'm still not a fan of some of the changes just as the limited viability of loadouts (cruiser missiles disappeared from cruisers) but that can change with more weapons in the future
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Darius - 08-27-2024
Are these "casuals" here in the room with us now? Perhaps they can shed some light onto what part of current Capital Ship Gameplay feels artificial/bad/unfun/not balanced that is not merely hurling away the daily "Haste ruined caps!!!"?
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Czechmate - 08-27-2024
Well yeah a lot of them have spoken already, the true casuals just play a lot less and never speak up (look at numbers)
The trend Fab explained is tied to everything - drag + mass making movement unfun, energy management I.e. you fly around nothing a lot more often, cruiser shields and forcing keybind or using console harder PvE with less rewards like end of battle zones, components, loadout complexity (paradoxically, as you can have more with the energy the way it is even at less guns).
This isn't made for casual players and lowers player numbers, but is arguably more rewarding for those that do put in the effort - this is no secret or a conspiracy, just a fact, me and other people like me are simply not the target audience, I'm assuming good snub players and people who take the time to learn very much enjoy flying caps a lot more now than when they were just easy and fun to fly big freighters
It doesn't feel artificial, bad or unbalanced, it's just not geared towards fun is all
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Nika - 08-27-2024
What drives casuals away from putting effort into learning these more complex mechanics is you and the OP, as your rants and complaints how everything is too complicated, unfun and isn't worth even looking into is the problem.
Don't project your unwillingness to learn onto other players.
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Czechmate - 08-27-2024
(08-27-2024, 05:14 PM)Nika Wrote: What drives casuals away from putting effort into learning these more complex mechanics is you and the OP, as your rants and complaints how everything is too complicated, unfun and isn't worth even looking into is the problem.We can do back and forth all we want- but you can't escape the facts - simply look at indie cap prefix log times - you over estimate how many of those even bother Reading threads like this. People vote with their feet/time spent
Don't project your unwillingness to learn onto other players.
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Tenshi Kuonji - 08-28-2024
(08-27-2024, 03:25 PM)Fab Wrote:(08-27-2024, 08:17 AM)Tenshi Kuonji Wrote: snipwhile gun count was reduced, individual guns were made stronger. firing one gun now means firing 2-3 guns in the previous patches. and, I agree that some battleships have very bad arcs. but, they haven't received a proper, in-depth tuning yet.
They were not made stronger as per to keep DPS per Energy Unit consumed
Let's bring some numbers:
Gallic Battleship Solaris Turret
Before Patch they had 800/400 DPS and having
Refire Rate: 8.00 /sec
Power Usage: 7,850 u/round (62,800 u/sec)
Well, 62800 u of energy per second per gun ...
Old Valor Stats were 600,000 Recharge and 9,000,000 Energy Core
Current Valor has: 76,900 u/sec Energy Recharge and 2,307,000 Energy Core Capacity
Keep with me let's talk with numbers
Current Gallic Battleship Solaris Turret has:
Actual Patch: 500/250
Refire Rate of 8.00 /sec
Power Usage 7,064 u/round (56,512 u/sec)
Okay, okay, they reduced the power usage and reduce the damage by 30% (but isn't 30% energy consumption reduction)
If we do math ... without core recharging, spending my old 9M energy core will take 143 or 144 seconds (we are not considering the core will keep it charging)
Now with my impressive and ridiculous small core of 2.307M i can barely hold it for 40 seconds (we are not considering the core will keep it charging)
Hold with me because things come really weird
Before i needed 9.55 Gallic Battleship Solaris Turret to make it suffer my power core ...
Now as you can see, with just 2 Turrets, your core suffers, and suffers not a bit, but A LOT
2 messy Gallic Solaris Turrets will use per second 113,024 u/sec , what is wrong there? your amazing battleship recharges at 76,900 ...
Speed: 2,000 m/sec before vs 1750 m/sec actual
Travel Range: 1,800 meters before vs 1500 m/sec actual
They don't even reduced the speed and range, but instead, make them so useless because the dispersion angle (that is more than 2.5 degrees) make it actually useless, and you telling me they "Boost" the damage? oh dear ...
I can do same calculations, and trust me, a ship currently is UNABLE to hold any weapon, with such low recharges, i can accept they cannot hold firing all weapons but when a ship is having issues with 2 turrets, well, we have an issue, and one big issue ...
And to be honest, shields are not helping, in any way we even had shields with 640K capacity and 6400 of recharge, 500K capacity with 5200 recharge ...
Now if we had 200K is kinda a lot ... (and useless with 1.2K of recharge) ...
No, they never NEVER NEVER make it a boost in any way, is a total Nerf to all the Capital Ships ... and some suffer a lot due not even having ability to place guns wherever we like, some have the worst places for heavies, and some, do not have the arcs to even sustain such attrocity, other ships with bigger frames are so defenseless now are unable to even aim at some points ...
Battleships currently lack protection, lack arcs, lack shields and lack powercore to even drive them correctly ...
Don't come to me saying
Code:
individual guns were made stronger.I wanna shoot everything without fear of getting out of power, or worst again, DEFENSELESS again enemies don't come one by one, but in a bunch, if you can't even target them and kill them or at least make them think twice, you are again DEATH ...
It was fun having cap pvp's, even some can't afford i was making them able afford a capital ship or a ship they would like it (I did like 10 times already) but currently, on this "Fighter-Bomber thing" isn't funny play caps, as useless as ever ...
GET MY OLD CAPITAL SHIPS HOW THEY WERE AND STOP DESTROYING THE GAME
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Busy Miner - 08-28-2024
(08-28-2024, 04:08 AM)Tenshi Kuonji Wrote: ...
GET MY OLD CAPITAL SHIPS HOW THEY WERE AND STOP DESTROYING THE GAME
Hey, arguing with numbers probably won't make an impression in this old-boys-fan-club. I predict another round of comments to "just get good".
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - Levenna - 08-28-2024
(08-28-2024, 04:08 AM)Tenshi Kuonji Wrote: ... this "Fighter-Bomber thing" isn't funny play caps, as useless as ever ...
This is a very funny trend among capital pilots that snubs are ostensibly broken vs caps. I would really like to see you hop in a bomber and see exactly how well you do vs a battleship in the current balance state.
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - 0xCosmin - 08-28-2024
(08-27-2024, 08:17 AM)Tenshi Kuonji Wrote: I wanna shoot everything without fear of getting out of power, or worst again, DEFENSELESS again enemies don't come one by one, but in a bunch, if you can't even target them and kill them or at least make them think twice, you are again DEATH ...
I don't understand if you talk about NPCs or players, as the same mechanics apply for everyone so you're not at a disadvantage. Just try to think before you right click randomly I guess?
Imo cap balance feels good rn and way better than the previous patch when cruisers could just face-roll everything (as a cruiser player). Yeah the extra shield gimmick, new weapon placements and core regen may be a bit frustrating at the beginning, but if you put a little bit of time and effort into it instead of deciding "this is shit" from the get go will get you really far in terms of enjoying caps.
RE: Crusier Shields tooks over 50% of energy recharge - HUMPHRESS - 08-28-2024
I like new cruisers.
Is there work to be done? 100%. I hate how my favorite ship in the game feels like garbage now in duels, and I would like to see more variety in loadouts. Still, I have a good time flying capital ships, and I like the cruiser shield gimmicks, and I am interested to see how these aspects are developed by the balance devs.
Thats just my 2 cents.