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+--- Thread: Economy in 5.2+ (/showthread.php?tid=205804)
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Enko - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 05:32 PM)Synts Wrote: I'm saying that old way is a LOT faster than new way. But may by it is just skill issue , but I haven't seen any Hege that fills itself up in 4-5 minutes in goldfield. To mine Iridium it takes what. some 4 min to fill Hege, Copper will take some 5-6 min.
This is by intent. As I said earlier the objective is to also put more time in the field. You can still however, mine a full hegemon in 8 minutes or so, most people can average under 10, and the whole trip takes 18-20 minutes.
You miss that Numining produces 800 HRC instead of 600 at the pob with the recipe, and the base price of that product is also up. There is a reason why mining produces 2.4mil+ per hour solo and the best trade routes in the game are the NuMining HRCs.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Skorak - 11-23-2024
Old version was faster but now you get paid much better so was it actually faster?
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Lythrilux - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 05:16 PM)TonyB Wrote: The "rightclick" mining was seen as necessary in the game, only to develop characters.
Your implication is that mining factions and their OFs existed on the same level as Recruit IDs, which is just incorrect. There are people out there that also do enjoy mining as an activity on it's own. I find it very nice to just put a playlist on and listen to music whilst I mine, it is relaxing.
(11-23-2024, 05:21 PM)Synts Wrote:(11-23-2024, 05:14 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The developers can just adjust csu as appropriate. In terms of time, there's ultimately not really much difference between this and what we had before. I guess maybe at worst there's a skill issue with how efficient people might be at it lol? Otherwise it really doesn't feel that taxing in terms of time to me and feels just as good if not more at producing activity than the old system.
Skill issue, aight, lets meet in gold field, you show me how you mine 5k ore in 4-5 minutes. and i will say it is skill issue or you have just big mouth. And yes, I'm still unfamiliar with this new system , did learn something but not good at it.
My post wasn't intended to upset or target you specifically, so I don't get the need for insults. It was simply emphasising the genuine possibility that there is a more distinct skill element with this new system now compared to before - though I'd argue it's just 'different' rather than more difficult. But I have seen the [BMM] guys as well as GF: cover that amount easily within 5 minutes. If you're currently unfamiliar with it, it may just be a case of adjusting to it and once you reach that point it'll come together. The documentation on it is very fresh currently.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Synts - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 05:37 PM)TonyB Wrote:(11-23-2024, 05:23 PM)Haste Wrote:(11-23-2024, 05:09 PM)Synts Wrote: You just brought up the biggest concern with this new mining system -- "time". I understand that someone doesn't have a job, a wife, children, or any life at all and can spend 24/7 playing video games.
Are you really saying that getting multiple players together at the same time for a group mining op -- which was really the only way in which the old system is quicker than the new -- is easier for busy adults than an 8 (Archon) to 20 (Hegemon) minute round trip in a "NuMining" field? I would argue the new system is much friendlier to a quick mining session. You can do a run or two and be done in less than 45 minutes, or even under 20 minutes if you're using an Archon. At the same time, if you do want a group operation you can still do so and it's still worth doing.
Well, a full cargo was 8 minutes before. Could you answer my question ? Why change a good and balanced system ?
Tony, the game is evolving, things are changing, I'm okay with all of this, but what I don't understand is why the most annoying thing is being made even more annoying and time-consuming.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - St.Denis - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 04:49 PM)Enko Wrote: Times change, the insane mark of the old mining system was never intended to be ran for mining as it is on discovery, it was literally an activity to fill up freighters. This system would get slammed if it was released in games today.
Old mining causes problems with so many people being put off mining because of how RSI inducing it is, some people will just flat out be unable to do it for very long. There is a rather large population of people who enjoy it and the gameplay variance it has, coupled with that our target is to have people spending longer times mining rather than hauling it home and the prospect of making longer mining times on old mining is horrid.
Only really a few people hate it and don't want to touch it, but luckily there are still plenty of old mining bits around.
"Different strokes for different folks" - (Each to their own).
Not everyone finds the old system of mining boring. Same as not everyone finds trading boring.
As for working as a Team (new system), there are people who mine in Teams under the old system. Our Bases are open for people to fill them if they so want to, we regularly fill them, as a Team, and the refined materials are always available for people to haul, if they prefer to do that.
If the people I play with aren't around, then I am (as they are) quite happy to get the Rock Badger out and fly back and forth filling the Bases.
I have a feeling it is only a matter of time before all mining fields will be changed to the new system. Having to use BC weapons to do your mining for you, seems a bit weird and I can't understand why we don't just have Mining Arrays (now there is a novelty) to do the job.
Hitting asteroids with big explosives would make the rocks to 'zip off' in all directions at mach 73 instead of just sitting right where they were hit.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Enko - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 02:24 PM)Karst Wrote: The Promethene fuel recipe is unviable.
(11-23-2024, 03:21 PM)Petitioner Wrote: The promethene recipes are still horrible.
Could either or both of you explain the concern with it and I can possibly look at it later, I am largely unfamiliar with it.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Synts - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 05:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: My post wasn't intended to upset or target you specifically, so I don't get the need for insults. It was simply emphasising the genuine possibility that there is a more distinct skill element with this new system now compared to before - though I'd argue it's just 'different' rather than more difficult. But I have seen the [BMM] guys as well as GF: cover that amount easily within 5 minutes. If you're currently unfamiliar with it, it may just be a case of adjusting to it and once you reach that point it'll come together. The documentation on it is very fresh currently.
I apologize, but I didn't mean to offend you. Maybe my lack of language skills leads to this understanding.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Lord Caedus - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 05:04 PM)Enko Wrote:(11-23-2024, 05:01 PM)Lord Caedus Wrote: Of the four factions that can mine Platinum, two of them are explicitly barred from entering Gallia, and the other two aren't exactly welcome. Which means you simply end up with people flying platinum on neutral ships which isn't exactly conducive to faction activity.
Sure but why is that an issue with selling Plat? It's basically one of the best routes right now disregarding Gallia, and maybe even Gallia is a self grief too.
Kishiro and Samura can't really switch to a "shipping" corporate ID that can fly to Gallia, because they're both the mining ID and shipping ID for Kusari.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - TonyB - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 05:41 PM)St.Denis Wrote:(11-23-2024, 04:49 PM)Enko Wrote: Times change, the insane mark of the old mining system was never intended to be ran for mining as it is on discovery, it was literally an activity to fill up freighters. This system would get slammed if it was released in games today.
Old mining causes problems with so many people being put off mining because of how RSI inducing it is, some people will just flat out be unable to do it for very long. There is a rather large population of people who enjoy it and the gameplay variance it has, coupled with that our target is to have people spending longer times mining rather than hauling it home and the prospect of making longer mining times on old mining is horrid.
Only really a few people hate it and don't want to touch it, but luckily there are still plenty of old mining bits around.
"Different strokes for different folks" - (Each to their own).
Not everyone finds the old system of mining boring. Same as not everyone finds trading boring.
As for working as a Team (new system), there are people who mine in Teams under the old system. Our Bases are open for people to fill them if they so want to, we regularly fill them, as a Team, and the refined materials are always available for people to haul, if they prefer to do that.
If the people I play with aren't around, then I am (as they are) quite happy to get the Rock Badger out and fly back and forth filling the Bases.
I have a feeling it is only a matter of time before all mining fields will be changed to the new system. Having to use BC weapons to do your mining for you, seems a bit weird and I can't understand why we don't just have Mining Arrays (now there is a novelty) to do the job.
Hitting asteroids with big explosives would make the rocks to 'zip off' in all directions at mach 73 instead of just sitting right where they were hit.
I completely agree with St;.Denis.
RE: Economy in 5.2+ - Karst - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 04:12 PM)Enko Wrote:(11-23-2024, 02:24 PM)Karst Wrote:
Platinum in numining is unviable if you can't export to Gallia, which almost none of the factions that can mine it can do.
Could you explain the platinum part?
(11-23-2024, 05:42 PM)Enko Wrote:(11-23-2024, 02:24 PM)Karst Wrote: The Promethene fuel recipe is unviable.
(11-23-2024, 03:21 PM)Petitioner Wrote: The promethene recipes are still horrible.
Could either or both of you explain the concern with it and I can possibly look at it later, I am largely unfamiliar with it.
Probably easier to explain in PM, but the short versions are:
For Platinum, it has a highly restrictive "luxury" buyers list that features extremely few destinations outside Gallia which makes it hard to connect, and none of which have csu that are particularly good. It barely competes with NPC HRCs like Optronics.
For Promethene, the fairly uncommon base ingredient, the two extremely exclusive minor ingredients, the lack of ingredients produced as byproduct (like Toxic Waste is), and the low base price of the end product make it unviable.
For example, you might reasonably expect that in Tau-23, just one jump from base price sources of two of the three ingredients, it would pay to make it, but it doesn't, not even for use, nevermind export. It's still cheaper to just buy fuel.
I think the processing ratio is what really needs to change; there's just no way a 2.2 : 1 recipe that produces a generic low value commodity is going to be worthwhile. It needs far greater output.