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+--- Thread: Sig Wanted (/showthread.php?tid=31876)
Sig Wanted - Guest - 01-23-2010
Okay, this is just friggin' messed up. You paid me 25mil instead of 40mil (saying that it's all you have), then asked for the source files. When I didn't give you the source files, you asked for your money back. I'm not sure how to respond to that.
You asked for a sig, and offered 45mil. You got a sig, and paid 25mil. Then you decided to change your mind, after paying me.
To other artists: What are the standard operating procedures for this?
Edit: I'd like to think that it's fair to assert my right to stick to the deal. I put in the hours, and he paid me the cash. He'd like the cash back, but I'll never get back the hours.
Sig Wanted - Thor22 - 01-23-2010
' Wrote:Okay, this is just friggin' messed up. You paid me 25mil instead of 40mil (saying that it's all you have), then asked for the source files. When I didn't give you the source files, you asked for your money back. I'm not sure how to respond to that.Quite simply, you have no obligation to hand over any of your files, all that is being 'paid' for is the final image, ususally just a .png or similar.
If the customer isn't happy with what you've produced, it's probably best to give back whatever they gave you, since they are no longer interested in the image.
You'd like to think that you wouldn't have such a stooshie over a signature, but here we are.
Sig Wanted - xxrockstar992xx - 01-23-2010
' Wrote:If the customer isn't happy with what you've produced, it's probably best to give back whatever they gave you, since they are no longer interested in the image.
Exactly, Still awaiting my money.
Sig Wanted - Lux - 01-23-2010
' Wrote:Exactly, Still awaiting my money.He put in the work for it. I don't understand how you can ask for something, make someone work hard at making something good, then simply reject it and ask for whatever it was you sent in as payment back. Even if you don't use the signature, the time and effort put in is there, and some kind of reward for that is simply a sign of respect toward the artist.
Sig Wanted - xxrockstar992xx - 01-23-2010
If he wants, he can strap a different name on to it and sell it to someone else. And guest, That's sig making for you. Many entries.. Only one gets chosen. In this case it is unwanted.
This is between me and him. Don't see why others have to get in on this.
Sig Wanted - Guest - 01-25-2010
Actually, I don't think it's just between you and me. In your reply to Waratah, you (again) neglected to mention that you didn't have 45mil to pay with. Maybe you discussed that over skype; I don't know.
There's also the possibility that you never had the credits to begin with, and never intended to hand anything over until you got source files from someone. You did tell me in-game (after handing me the creds) that all that you wanted my sig for was the source files, so that you could edit it later (and thus a sig with no PSD was worth nothing to you).
Recent PMs:
Blue Shift Wrote:xxrockstarxx Wrote:Im still awaiting my money back.Hmm? You won't be getting it back.
WarLok. (with the .) and in case you forgot, it was 25 million
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In case you forgot, you neglected to inform me that you didn't have the creds to pay full price for a sig, while getting me to do multiple, time-consuming edits. According to a trader, you can earn 25mil per hour in a transport. The edits, which I wouldn't have done if I knew that you didn't have the 40mil that I eventually asked for, took multiple hours. You misled me and caused me to waste hours of time, and I'll be keeping the 25mil (an hour of your time). I still feel as if you owe at least another 15m.
A deal's a deal, after all. We completed the transaction, and that's that. I would suggest that you at least use the sig and get your money's worth out of it.
A lot of this depends on whether we look at sigmaking as a good or a service. Many here view it as a good: They make pre-made sigs and add names to them late; open up store-fronts, or compete to sell them. I treat sigmaking as a service; I contact a client in private (no other sigmakers involved), and work with them to create a sig that is uniquely theirs. That's why I intentionally contacted rockstar after he closed the "competition."
You can return a good, but you can't return a service. That's partially because a good can be sold instead to someone else, whereas a service cannot be unbound from one client and given to another.
This is, of course, a grossly simplified version of the problem. I know that most sigmakers here view their product as something between a good and a service; not merely as one or the other. That being said, my question to you is: What do you view sigmaking as? What would you do in this situation.
Regardless, I believe I've made my side of the argument abundantly clear, between my PM to rockstar and the above statements.
Edit: I do acknowledge that I'm being an *******. I really am.
Edit 2: Ooh look, he replied to the PM!
Blue Shift Wrote:xxrockstarxx Wrote:The whole reason i bought the sig was so that i could extract parts from it and make one good one. But now since you won't even give me your source, (which i find stupid) there is no point. and if it took you hours to make that? you might as well just use photoshop. instead of fireworks or w/e you used. Cuz that doesn't even look like it took you a half an hour. and SINCE YOU have the source files. all YOU have to do is strap a new name on to it and sell it to someone else. Or maybe even put a new ship? shouldn't be that hard.
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Sorry, but I don't buy that. you, on the other hand, did buy the sig. With no mention at the time of not liking it (again, I wouldn't have taken the time to do all the edits if I knew that you hated the concept), nor of wanting the source files. So it's yours, and I'm still waiting on the rest of the 40mil.
Sig Wanted - xxrockstar992xx - 01-25-2010
Not giving source files, or even not telling what other program you used is stupid. its like buying a car and not getting the keys to it. Sig making is a service, But it is also a seller-buyer type deal. if the buyer isn't happy, they want a refund. Well guess what. Im not happy, i want a refund. And i would do the exact same thing that im doing now. if the buyer was not happy, i would give back, Or edit more to his liking. which ever they would prefer. In this case. I want a refund. Your sigs are to bright and to flashy. and it is nothing of what i wanted at all, besides the ship. Which is the whole reason why i wanted the sig. I was going to make one big one, with parts or ideas used from others.
Sig Wanted - Lux - 01-25-2010
If you aren't happy with the result, why did you pay him for it? You bought the signature; it's yours to do with as you will, but it's not a returnable good, like Blue Shift explained. False advertising and harassment don't exactly go hand in hand, to say the least, and even on their own they are by no means good.
Sig Wanted - Guest - 01-25-2010
' Wrote:Not giving source files, or even not telling what other program you used is stupid. its like buying a car and not getting the keys to it. Sig making is a service, But it is also a seller-buyer type deal. if the buyer isn't happy, they want a refund. Well guess what. Im not happy, i want a refund. And i would do the exact same thing that im doing now. if the buyer was not happy, i would give back, Or edit more to his liking. which ever they would prefer. In this case. I want a refund. Your sigs are to bright and to flashy. and it is nothing of what i wanted at all, besides the ship. Which is the whole reason why i wanted the sig. I was going to make one big one, with parts or ideas used from others.You should have mentioned not liking my style before making me edit it, then; that's flat out deceptive. Oh, and the first two versions weren't bright and flashy. After the second edit, you literally asked me to make it brighter.
We all used the ship render from the wiki, so wanting it "just for the ship" makes absolutely no sense. Also, wanting to steal parts and ideas from several entries... That wasn't mentioned in either the OP or any dealings with any sigmaker during this entire process, up until you handed me the credits.
Sig Wanted - xxrockstar992xx - 01-25-2010
Its not the ship itself, Its what you did to the ship. It doesn't matter, Pm sent. and its sent for a reason. private message is private. if i wanted everyone in the community to see it i would have posted it here. And guest, I still fail to see where this involves you.