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+--- Thread: Lawful Rheinland Gunship? (/showthread.php?tid=38120)
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Cawdor - 04-12-2010
*sigh*
Have you ever been pulled over by a tank?
That is all.
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - sovereign - 04-12-2010
' Wrote:I like the idea, I dont have enough fingers to count how many times I had to retreat because I just and simply wasnt capable of dealing with the situation in the Mjolnir, while the RM a one or two systems away had to deal with other things and could not help me or wasnt even around at all.
The Mjolnir is a great ship against most Fighters and Bombers, but if it comes to anything bigger then a Bomber ( a well flown Praetorian can be a Problem) its just not agile enough and/or lacks the hull to survive a bit longer.
A gunship with stats near the Hacker GB or the Bottlenose would help a bit, it would still die against cruisers, so the RM wouldnt loose the "right" to help us.
Wait.
If it's bigger than a bomber...
why are the RFP fighting it?
Makes as much sense as "Kusari warfleet in Leeds! Call the BPA!" to me.
I'm also inclined to agree with Cawdor here. A flock of gunships coming toward me feels more like a professional military than a police force, sorta like having a tank column roll past you does not exactly scream "police".
Here's the lesson I learned from the LPI- a lone Liberator will never kill anything unless your name is "Zapp" or some such. But a pack of Liberators, even unskilled ones, will annihilate anything smaller than a cruiser without casualty. 3 Phantoms will give hell to even 6 or so Odins. With enough skill and a bit of luck you might even win that, and you'll certainly survive long enough for backup to arrive unless there's a very serious problem between keyboard and chair (jousting in an LF, for example).
And on the off chance you're wanting a better chance at killing the Smokeones... you'll do better in fighters than in gunboats, or even cruisers. Trust me.
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Dab - 04-12-2010
The currently available gunboat is perfectly fine. The only house that needs two different kinds of gunboats is Bretonia, and that's for the simple fact that the original one is completely useless against anything with any skill.
Rheinland has one, it works just as well against enemy gunboat as against enemy bombers. You have no need for another one when your original can preform both jobs efficiently.
The RFP doesn't use gunboats.. What do you see when you get pulled over on the street? A police squad car? A tank? A helicopter?
Police don't use military vehicles, and the military doesn't use the police's. The police have their 'squad car' (Phantom), the military have their tanks and they helicopters (Wraith/Gunboat). The moment you see a cop pull you over in a tank, then preach about how you need Wraith so badly.
I was in LPI for two years... I used the avenger 0 times. To this day I've never flown one. My LPI was in a Liberator the entire time, and it worked perfectly well. It may take some time, and it may be a different kind of combat from the typical 'lets fly at each other in straight lines so we can hit each other', but that doesn't mean it's useless. Learn to use your LF properly and you'll beat any VHF you come up against, let alone bombers, who are nearly helpless against you.
The RFP has everything they need already, don't start pulling in the gunboat spam into it.
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Oldum - 04-12-2010
' Wrote:Wait.
If it's bigger than a bomber...
why are the RFP fighting it?
Makes as much sense as "Kusari warfleet in Leeds! Call the BPA!" to me.
I'm also inclined to agree with Cawdor here. A flock of gunships coming toward me feels more like a professional military than a police force, sorta like having a tank column roll past you does not exactly scream "police".
Here's the lesson I learned from the LPI- a lone Liberator will never kill anything unless your name is "Zapp" or some such. But a pack of Liberators, even unskilled ones, will annihilate anything smaller than a cruiser without casualty. 3 Phantoms will give hell to even 6 or so Odins. With enough skill and a bit of luck you might even win that, and you'll certainly survive long enough for backup to arrive unless there's a very serious problem between keyboard and chair (jousting in an LF, for example).
And on the off chance you're wanting a better chance at killing the Smokeones... you'll do better in fighters than in gunboats, or even cruisers. Trust me.
Why are we fighting anything bigger then a bomber? Cause there's noone else around to fight it maybe? And if we want to keep the RP, we can't just fly away from a ship cause it's simply big ...
Okay, I admit Phantoms are good, but what fighters are you thinking of? Eagles? Make the RFP look like any other Civilians? Then why is it called RFP ?
Since the only fighter we have apart from the Phantom is the Mjolnir. Which sucks if it's against 2 or more VHFs ... and it does big times ...
' Wrote:The currently available gunboat is perfectly fine. The only house that needs two different kinds of gunboats is Bretonia, and that's for the simple fact that the original one is completely useless against anything with any skill.
Rheinland has one, it works just as well against enemy gunboat as against enemy bombers. You have no need for another one when your original can preform both jobs efficiently.
The RFP doesn't use gunboats.. What do you see when you get pulled over on the street? A police squad car? A tank? A helicopter?
Police don't use military vehicles, and the military doesn't use the police's. The police have their 'squad car' (Phantom), the military have their tanks and they helicopters (Wraith/Gunboat). The moment you see a cop pull you over in a tank, then preach about how you need Wraith so badly.
I was in LPI for two years... I used the avenger 0 times. To this day I've never flown one. My LPI was in a Liberator the entire time, and it worked perfectly well. It may take some time, and it may be a different kind of combat from the typical 'lets fly at each other in straight lines so we can hit each other', but that doesn't mean it's useless. Learn to use your LF properly and you'll beat any VHF you come up against, let alone bombers, who are nearly helpless against you.
The RFP has everything they need already, don't start pulling in the gunboat spam into it.
Yes, as I said at least 10 times already, the Rheinland gunboat is great ... for the RM ... we don't want to use that, cause it's a heavy Gunboat ... we'd want to use a light gunship ... not a tank ...
And if you look a little closer, what do you see in the sky when the police is chasing a criminal? Or just scouting around above a large city? Can you guess? A police HELICOPTER!
Now, your lovely idea about tanks/helicopters ... I've mentioned that the police does have similar equipment as the military ... yes I'm talking about helicopters ... just the cop choppers are less equipped and are more simple. So why can't the RFP have it's "light helicopter" as the RM has his "heavy attack chopper" ?
I'm in the LPI, and I really hate the Liberator ... not because it's easy to hit, because it's one of the hardest ships to hit ... but because of it's power core. Same goes for the Phantom.
Actually what's your problem about a faction wanting to expand it's possibilities? I really don't get it ... a few RFP members already posted here, saying that they would like to have this. The others don't post here, cause all you do is :
"NO WAY, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT CAUSE IT'S USELESS"
"FORGET IT, YOU CAN'T HAVE SOMETHING i CAN'T"
and so on ...
I can already see people throwing things at me, but I don't care, WE as members of the RFP would like to have it, WE have our reasons and experiences why WE want this ... and hopefully some who are capable of designing such a ship will give some examples for it ... and hopefully will submit it.
After this, I think it's for the Developing Team and the Admins who will decide if we can actually get it or not
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Blodo - 04-12-2010
Gunboats for police is like police using tanks to pull over traffic in RL. I'll point you to the example of BPA and their recent decision to Bret gunboat spam Dublin in accordance to their RP at that time. It wasn't fun for the Mollys, and this wont be fun for other people as well. Sure, the Hessians can pull out caps and turn it into a huge show off of "who has more", but the Bundschuh/LWB/Unioners I guess are screwed... they will need to fly in large wings or accompanied by a couple of aces to be able to ever hope to counter this. So of course suddenly you will find a lot more Hessian cruisers flying around to "counter" the inevitable RFP gunboat spam. And then it all becomes retarded.
So yes, I am also completely against Rheinland getting an RFP gunboat, even though I'll probably get called biased for it. Regardless, there are other ways to make the RFP active rather than suddenly giving it caps. I can assure you that a RFP GS will give the faction attention, but not the kind of attention that anyone will like (indie gunboat spam).
The RM could redirect a small part of its constant wave of recruits to the RFP and proceed with the role split, and that would work 500 times better than this idea.
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Oldum - 04-12-2010
' Wrote:Gunboats for police is like police using tanks to pull over traffic in RL. I'll point you to the example of BPA and their recent decision to Bret gunboat spam Dublin in accordance to their RP at that time. It wasn't fun for the Mollys, and this wont be fun for other people as well. Sure, the Hessians can pull out caps and turn it into a huge show off of "who has more", but the Bundschuh/LWB/Unioners I guess are screwed... they will need to fly in large wings or accompanied by a couple of aces to be able to ever hope to counter this. So of course suddenly you will find a lot more Hessian cruisers flying around to "counter" the inevitable RFP gunboat spam. And then it all becomes retarded.
So yes, I am also completely against Rheinland getting an RFP gunboat, even though I'll probably get called biased for it. Regardless, there are other ways to make the RFP active rather than suddenly giving it caps. I can assure you that a RFP GS will give the faction attention, but not the kind of attention that anyone will like (indie gunboat spam).
The RM could redirect a small part of its constant wave of recruits to the RFP and proceed with the role split, and that would work 500 times better than this idea.
I'd like to have 2 things pinned here...
#1. When did you ever see an RFP indie? During my time on the server ( about a year or so) I only met 1, that is 1 of them .. I don't think they'd all of the sudden, spawn like flies ...
#2. Why do you think this is to boost the faction up? I don't think it is ... it's just something WE ( current RFP members) would like to have. That's all.
But I've told this a hundred times already, but it seems like noone cares to read between the lines ... or just don't care about it ...
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Colonel.Tigh - 04-12-2010
' Wrote:#1. When did you ever see an RFP indie?
10-15 or so. maybe more, but mostly just to try out the Mjolnir.
As for the rest of the discussion, I am not so found of gunboats, and don't use any, but the light-fighters are currently not battle-ready, they might contribute in a big group fight, were easier targets are selected first by the enemy, but on their own they cant take shield damage, they cant take hull damage, and besides mine-spamming they got not the fire-power to do enough damage.
As for the argument, that coppers don't patrol in Tanks or Helicopters, first military do not patrol at all (in most country's at least) and will only be called upon war or total break down of civil order.
But we are talking about star-ships here, and they are fighting Pirates, so no 'Police Cars' here, we are more talking about Coastguards, and most of them got small ships with cannons, speedboats with machine-guns mostly but also corvettes with a naval gun.
So police gunboats make sense, with little ship to ship kill capability but quiet effective in taking out pirate speedboats (e.g. bombers) and illegal shipping's (e.g. Smuggling Trains).
While the RFP is better equipped than any other police-force, cause of the Mjolnir, a Bomber/Fighter hybrid, which can be terribly effective against bombers, transports and even ill flown fighters and gunboats.
But id gladly give it up for something like the Bounty-hunter Gunship, which is about a perfect 'coastal guard corvette' able to kill both pirate-ships and Container-transports.
So ill vote for BH gunship clones for all the polices.
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Tomtomrawr - 04-12-2010
' Wrote:The police have their 'squad car' (Phantom), the military have their tanks and they helicopters (Wraith/Gunboat).This is the point that interests me the most. If you associate the Wraith as being a tank, and people do not want the Police flying tanks, then why were we given the Mjolnir? It would be seen as some sort of super-tank, because compared to the Wraith that is what it is. More armour and more firepower makes a bigger tank.
And I already had to bend several rules previously instated by my old Frederick Belz to get the faction active, by allowing our members to fly Wraiths if they have a Military background. I'm not happy about that, but without that the RFP would have considerably less members than it does today.
' Wrote:...but the Bundschuh/LWB/Unioners I guess are screwed... they will need to fly in large wings or accompanied by a couple of aces to be able to ever hope to counter this.You guys make it sound as if we'd fly nothing but this ship. And as if the Polizeikadetts would be given a Gunship to start off with. Firstly, I assure you all that this ship would be extremely limited and used only in desperate circumstances (e.g. where we are considerably outnumbered). Second, this ship would only be allowed for Obersts and higher, so there would not be a constant stream of these things leaving the shipyard to go straight to the lanes and shoot up some guy in a Dagger who wants to try pirating in a LF.
And third, any independent people who I receive complaints about because they are using the Gunship in an abusive manner will be punished. I don't want to see every man and his dog who has an RFP Guard ID flying a Gunship because it looks cool. I would want a request sent to Inspekteur Putzkanner himself, and make sure that it is limited to those who have proven that they will not abuse the ship.
Quote:The RM could redirect a small part of its constant wave of recruits to the RFP and proceed with the role split, and that would work 500 times better than this idea.Although that would be a logical solution, I do not believe that would be fair on those who apply for the RM and get sent to the RFP. If they wanted to join the RFP they would have come to our specific recruitment thread. Of course, a suggestion now and again in the RM recruitment thread that the RFP needs some more members couldn't hurt, but I don't want to disrupt the activity of the RM. At the moment, on an OORP standpoint, I would rather see the RM remain than the RFP. They do our job and even more, despite persistent attempts to individualise the RFP, and the Police factions in general.
Many here complain that we don't see the Police pulling over people in our cities driving tanks in the world today. Well, we certainly don't see the Military doing so either. And yet, the more unlikely of the two to be seen in the world today is commonplace in this game.
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Curios - 04-12-2010
For those who think that police can't has a tank:
Police is porposed to fight enemies inside the country. Military - border protection and fighting enemies outside the borders. So, Military and police are equiped according to duty they have to carry. If now police in your town have no tank patrols its just mean that street gangs have no something against what tanks should be given to police. If police facing something like just a cool_suppa_streetz_ganksta in their day to day duty - they are equiped properly, 2 policemans with police batons and glock 17 pistols are enough. But if you flying in dangerouse space where you can face bombers and gunboats police should be equipeed properly to fight down those enemies effectivly. If you think that pirates should keep in mind that police phantoms are weak and they should not get too much ships to raid just not to piss of police with VHF and GB spam, so, then you, at least, mistaken.
If military can face battleships - so they have battleships. If police can face gbs and vhfs - they should have gbs and vhfs to give a proper answer to the threat.
Lawful Rheinland Gunship? - Blodo - 04-12-2010
This isn't about the way the RFP faction will act with it. It's about the way the indies will. And they will come, I will assure you.
In addition to that, the reason why you see more Military than Police in the game is an OORP one - Military can do more in the scope of server rules. If you say that you want the gunboat for RFP out of OORP reasons, then to be perfectly honest with you I disagree with it even more...