+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+---- Forum: Discovery Mod Balance (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=31)
+---- Thread: Transports and combat (/showthread.php?tid=43127)
Transports and combat - Friday - 07-26-2010
If the devs implement the Turret-View Steering Mod, then everything to do with combat might well change, as larger ships will have improved defense by way of dodging.
That being said - regardless of what is or isnt implemented - there are two classes of ship I feel should be the majority of ships flown in Freelancer. Transports and Freighters.
Why? Because in all likelihood that is what the bulk of traffic in Sirius would consist of! These two ship classes also for the base of the Discovery Food Pyramid.
Ive said it before - let Transports mount Gunboat weapons. But let them be balanced by their smaller powercores.
With a smaller transport powercore - you wont see Transports mounting heavy gunboat weapons like razors or missiles - you will simply see an increase in Gunboat Primaries being used.
This also has the RP advantage of factional weapons being used - rather than just the generic transport weapons.
The other option is to consider ways of 'pimping' ships with upgraded equipment that consumes cargo space. So a Transport must make tradeoffs. Hell - you could apply this principle to all ships.
I envisage a beefed up mid-sized transport (up to a BWT in size) equivalent to a stripped down gunboat. (in terms of balance overlap).
Transports and combat - Coin - 07-26-2010
@ jinx, i have the forums showing in blue solution: much kinder on colour-blind eyes.
@ topic: new turret - Transport Missile turret
make them the equivalent energy consumption that a snac on a bomber is... it'll give a bomber something to think about if he meets a lone transport.
Transports and combat - Akura - 07-26-2010
I gotta agree with Friday, Gunboat Primaries on Transports would be a very interesting concept.
It would give Bombers something to think twice about, though the energy on the Transports would run out really quick.
Also, Akegata and Shire would be beasts.
Transports and combat - Diomedesbc - 07-28-2010
I totally agree with your Zombie Rudo. I'm a independent trader and its frustrating. Its funny because I actually started a pirate character that I funnel money to just like you said.
You hit it right on the head in that it makes us independent traders all paranoid and anti social because whenever we see another person on the radar or chat screen we want to run. Discourages us from socializing.
I think the pirates risk nothing and we risk everything.
Transports and combat - Adam_Spire - 08-09-2010
If they have a better mouse trap then be a smarter mouse.
I hate to say this, but the main reason Cargo and transport Commanders get pirated, or shot out of space is due to one main factor. TIM Time is Money. A concept I would hope other commanders would take in the future.
I once implored the idea of a weapon design for Transport mounted missiles. Weaker than their Gunboat counterparts but none the less a better deterrent then slower more powerful type 2 turrets and less draining that type 4's in the long run.
This line of thought was quickly making our transports into a cargo battle cruiser, but we're not combatants, we are mere transporters of goods for profit. Yes there is the lack of support craft and escorts, yes, we can make a plea for stronger, more powerful <add your desire here> and yet the pirates will always hit us with something harder and heavier.
I even saw four transports with two Gunboat escorts, halted and pirated by one calculating Gunboat commander in and around the Omega sectors. He convinced the transports that even if he couldn't get them to pay then and there, he would actively seek them out when alone and demand even more, even go as far as to blow them away for his efforts. I learned a valuable lesson: Power means nothing if its has no foundation on tactics.
Our best defense is not to out fight the enemy but to out think them. Using Jumpholes and having more escorts won't do. But commanding your shipments and remembering that Space has 3 axis's wins the day. Yes, it takes more time, but avoiding the trade lanes, taking the long road, thinking outside the box helps me avoid every pirating attack I can imagine. Also, look at the scanners to the next system. Keep monitoring where known allies and friendlies are and ask them to see if there are any enemies in the area. It doesn't cost you to ask.
If you want to take a risk, Waiting at the jumpgates until the last moment before jumping, seeing the pirates enter a system in force then jumping out gives you the needed time to one up them.
There are ways to beat the pirates. A sharp mind will out do a sharp sword any day .
Transports and combat - AeternusDoleo - 08-09-2010
Traders don't need bigger powerplants... the type 3 guns don't chew that much power. It's only when you mount the type 4 peashooters or the type 2 sluggish cannons that you run into a power crisis. Upping the firepower on transports might not be a bad idea though...
Give em a few missile turrets, something that will actually take a bite out of a gunboat... and make the ammo hellishly expensive. Gives the trader a choice: Engage a lone pirate and lose some cash, or lose some cash being pirated. It also prevents douchebaggery like asking for an entire cargo instead of being reasonable. I'd for one, even at $50K a shot, would mount up on those missile turrets on my miner. Hegemon with 8 turrets forward firing... best armed transport in the game (better even then the Shire due to the fact of the gun facing). But it can't drive off even a single fighter or gunboat effectively due to the lack of available weapons.
As for the shields. The recharge rate, and max should be about gunboat class (which still puts transports at a disadvantage at being a -much- bigger target). They are not warships. Basically, I see transports as something that should be armed and armored much like a gunship, but maneuver like a battleship (why not simply do away with the transport class turrets and open the gunship ones to them?). Those things are meant to be going straight. Upping maneuverability on transports is a bad idea... frankly, I find the maneuverability on some of them surprisingly high. Kushari Bumblebee for one turns rather fast.
Transports and combat - Agmen of Eladesor - 08-09-2010
I only saw one thing in here that I have to comment on, from a rules perspective. If you make a transport into a poor mans gunboat, be prepared for us to have to modify things. The PTrans is a perfect example of this, and the rule modification where official faction caps can engage transports in house space is a direct response to this.
I don't have a problem with upgrading some weapons / cargo / armor on a transport - but make the tradeoff. You want something that can survive, cut the cargo capacity down to 3K. If you want to make the absolute most money for a run, then you fly something with less protection.
And of course, if you're going to fly through California towards Riverside from New York, expect that something is going to jump you, and don't take the trade lane.
Transports and combat - AeternusDoleo - 08-09-2010
Sounds like a fair tradeoff. Gives the "freelancing" trade community better protection (since they can't go over 3.8K cargo anyway) whereas the dedicated trader convoys/trains can still be soft targets, which will -require- escorts to survive. Any unprotected big soft haulers will then be taking their chances...
Shire aside, most of the huge transports sport what... one to three guns?
Transports and combat - Govedo13 - 08-12-2010
' Wrote:@ topic: new turret - Transport Missile turret
make them the equivalent energy consumption that a snac on a bomber is... it'll give a bomber something to think about if he meets a lone transport.
' Wrote:Missile turrets want make big difference.- good pilots tend to avoid it,noobs tend to spam it.Right now there is no way how 2 transports can beat single bomber in PvP.
' Wrote:Give em a few missile turrets, something that will actually take a bite out of a gunboat... and make the ammo hellishly expensive. Gives the trader a choice: Engage a lone pirate and lose some cash, or lose some cash being pirated. It also prevents douchebaggery like asking for an entire cargo instead of being reasonable. I'd for one, even at $50K a shot, would mount up on those missile turrets on my miner.This is indeed a option.When all for traders is credits per second, well it is up to them actially indeed.
And there is nothing wrong in demanding the whole cargo if the trader is douchebagg- like the 90% of them.
I hate to see this>
T:"Well kill me I will not pay you!"
P:"But you will die, you will loose your expensive ship and your cargo will be looted by our P trasnp"
T:" Anyway kill me I will respawn"
May be nice dead penalty for tranport class ships will fix this behavior,good combinated with the transport buff and rules change :
' Wrote:I only saw one thing in here that I have to comment on, from a rules perspective. If you make a transport into a poor mans gunboat, be prepared for us to have to modify things. The PTrans is a perfect example of this, and the rule modification where official faction caps can engage transports in house space is a direct response to this.It is logical to be like that, if transports recieve some better options why not to remove the cap/transp rule?
I don't have a problem with upgrading some weapons / cargo / armor on a transport - but make the tradeoff. You want something that can survive, cut the cargo capacity down to 3K. If you want to make the absolute most money for a run, then you fly something with less protection.
The point however is in the options, many people gave good ideas and some input from the dev team was / well it will change the whole balance, indeed this is the purpose of the whole topic...
Transports and combat - Talesin - 08-12-2010
Greetings,
i just got some idea.
' Wrote:I don't have a problem with upgrading some weapons / cargo / armor on a transport - but make the tradeoff. You want something that can survive, cut the cargo capacity down to 3K. If you want to make the absolute most money for a run, then you fly something with less protection.
Well you all might have recognised that Ships normally got 1 Cargospace more than displayed.
That's because the ID consumes 1 slot.
How about making Transport weapons that are much better than other Transport Weapons and doesn't need more energy but consumes like 200 Cargospace?
That wouldn't need to rebalance all the Transports upon introducing a new weapon.
Everyone could decide on his own if he would like more firepower or more cargospace.
' Wrote:Also, Akegata and Shire would be beasts.
This of course could still happen.
But if the Akegate/Shire decides to be a 12-Weap-Beast it would have to sacrifice over 50% of its cargospace - even more with an armor upgrade.
So a CAU8 Shire would have 1500 Cargospace instead of 4200.
The Ptrans as well - he could decide to be able to solo every other Transport - but at a high price - it won't be able to pick up all the loot any more.
With full 9 Weap arnament and CAU8 tha Ptrans would reduce its Cargospace of 3400 down to 1300. They could force other Transports to drop 1300 of their stuff then - which is a real improvement considering that normally those guys demand 3000.
Of course Supertransports would be rather woulnerable too, since they can't use much weapons - but they would have more Cargospace left as well.
What about that Idea?
Regards,
Talesin