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+--- Thread: Emergency Defense Group Enterprise (/showthread.php?tid=61114)
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Wuselkobold - 06-08-2011
' Wrote:Another solution:
Use Mercenary ID+BHG Gunboats and snubs WITH permission from BHG|
Why the fish do you need to use Cruisers and Battleships?
Did you actually read the posts above? It was already explained why.
As much as I dislike flying capships myself, I wouldn't try to deny others, who do enjoy flying these ships having their fun if the ID and Serverrules allow it. Caps do exist and they are meant to be used, deal with it.
Regarding the ID question: Personally I prefer the BHG one because it emphasizes EDGEs lawful alignment, while a Merc IDed EDGE could, in theory, decide to change sides at any given time.
The BHG ID gives all parties the faction is dealing with the security of knowing that they won't be shot at by the group they pay for now or even granted perission to use their technology at a later point.
As for tech: I don't care about the BHG ships, Bottlenose is nice but I rarely use it anyways, I don't need caps either, but as stated above, if others want them, we have to find a solution somehow.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Govedo13 - 06-08-2011
Like many other people pointed out- I never saw your group to fight fair, cut the ganking.
Learn this, drop the caps for bounty hunting, since they are made by Core for their war with Order and you have nothing to do with it and you have my vote. I have nothing against to be outnumbered but if you outnumber your enemies more then 3:1 and spam several gunboats in fighter only fight then there is something wrong. And I fail to see the reasons for beeing official- you cannot do it with BHG ID- indeed there are some perks if you had this option, if you do it with Merc ID - you have no bases, cannot use the faction rights properly , no shipline- no point for you.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Wuselkobold - 06-08-2011
' Wrote:Like many other people pointed out- I never saw your group to fight fair, cut the ganking.Statements like that are useless and nothing but an ill disguised trial by forum.
As was pointed out before, EDGE isn't perfect. Some players are still learning, and even experienced ones forget themselves sometimes.
Nobody is perfect, I'm not, you aren't either.
If you are referring to a specific event, send us names, possibly screenshots and it will be dealt with. Heck, even if you just describe a specific situation we'll try to do something about it.
Empty and unspecific accusations like yours however, are hard to use to improve things, right?;)
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Govedo13 - 06-08-2011
' Wrote:Like many other people pointed out- I never saw your group to fight fair, cut the ganking.Ok ignore this it is just my personal experience mixed from several different encounters with EDGE, since it is personal experience and I am not the kind that have much problem with ganking and dont make such screens and scream in the forum for it, just ignore it.
I would really like to know more about this:
' Wrote:And I fail to see the reasons for being official- you cannot do it with BHG ID- indeed there are some perks if you had this option, if you do it with Merc ID - you have no bases, cannot use the faction rights properly , no ship-line- no point for you.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Wuselkobold - 06-08-2011
I could return the question and ask what was the point of going official with the Sails/OPG when there already were 2 other official Corsair factions. Or the Omicroners/OSI.
For one, being official gives you the possibility the alter/expand your NPC factions Roleplay, within certain boundaries (or at least others not being able anymore to force their RP onto you, no matter how much you disagree with it). It'd also gives the possibility to openly recruit on the forums and yes, this is important even with large playercount, new members bring fresh blood, fresh ideas and replace older members who aren't that active anymore.
Third reason is, that for some odd reason, official factions are percieved differently in this community. While unofficial groups are usually dismissed as 'unimpartant', 'insignificant' or 'temporal', official ones hold a different weight entirely.
At least that is what I have experienced in two years of playing here.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - SnakThree - 06-08-2011
You would get your own subforum too. Ain't that awesome?!
Have I already said I approve this?
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - EDG Enterprise - 06-08-2011
We humbly ask everyone who wish to contribute to this thread to read at least the first section of our proposal and F.A.Q. at the end of it. Also we humbly ask you to read posts made from this account in this thread as they may contain already answers to your questions.
To Chopper (concerning bringing capital ships to House systems): This isn't really a problem. First of all I don't see a point of hunting single snub targets in a capital ship. Any snub can outrun a capital ship. Using capital ships to hunt individual targets in house systems would be a terrible waste of time and resources. Using gunboats and gunships to hunt individual snub targets is pointless too. Second of all every major House is not happy with foreign capital ships in their realm. Rheinlanders just shoot them, Bretonians ask them politely to leave, and Libertonians combine those two approaches. As an official faction, relying on governmental contracts, we would not endanger our relationships and agreements by bringing capital ships to someone's house space uninvited. Also during the eight months of our presence here we used capital ships only in three places: Tau region to fight Outcasts, Omega region to fight Red Hessians and Magellan and Cortez to keep in check Lane Hacker Destroyer that was fending off our gunships and gunboats. Actually there was only one engagement in Magellan and it were indie Liberty Rogue cruiser and several gunboats pirating traders there. We used a Thresher and a bomber to destroy them. If it would be required then capital ship use could be restricted to non-House systems like with the current guard ID. We need them only for Taus and Omegas anyway. However, I would prefer not to have this restriction to be able to actually move the ships from one sector of Sirius to another with a permission of local governments. Right now if we move our capital ships from Taus to Omegas we need to take a route through several hostile guard systems or try to sneak through Alpha.
To Alley and eightdashbracket (concerning again capital ships and the Core): Please, read our writeup. If you don't have the time to read it, just read the first section and the F.A.Q.. Or at least pay attention to the answers I am giving from this account. InRP we are a splinter group of BHG and Core that evolved into full-fledged independent lawful PMC. If the proposal of such faction on a Mercenary ID is accepted, then we don't need any InRP or ooRP permission from the BHG or Core to use their ships. Everything that is in the faction proposal is being granted. Additionally, as far as I am concerned, there is simply and brutally no chance of BHG Core giving us InRP or ooRP anything of their stuff. And once again a single capital ship is not a solution. It just wastes the idea of EDG deployments.
To Govedo (concerning fair fights): We are ganking players. We are giving them fair fights. We are ganked. We are given fair fights. And we will continue to do both things. And other people will continue to do both things. Because both of them are fun at times. And both of them are appropriate depending on the circumstances. Personally sometimes I even ask to be ganked. If you say that you have never seen a fair fight from our side, then I must reply that your perspective is narrow. Additionally your judgement might be biased because you have been killed by some of our members. Obviously you can say the same about me. However, I am in the better position as I have hard proofs and can give you counterexamples from our vast archives of bounty claims. These are couple of examples of situations that I consider to be more than fair fights.
2 EDGE fighters against 3 Corsair fighters in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 1 Corsair fighter and 2 Corsair cruisers in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 2 Corsair turret gunboats flying in formation in the open space
3 EDGE light gunships against 4 Hogosha bombers, 5 Hogosha fighters, one AI cruiser and one KNF destroyer (not that there was some reengagement on the opponents' side)
1 EDGE gunboat against 3 Liberty Rogue and Outcast bombers
1 EDGE bomber against 2 Liberty Rogue bombers and 4 Liberty Rogue and Outcast gunboats
Well, in every of the situation above our forces were weaker than our opponents and managed to prevail without losses. I don't want it to sound like we are boasting. We are certainly not. We have several experienced PVP'ers but most of our members are rather moderately skilled. What I want to say is that your claim is completely untrue. We have archives of all our bounty claims on our external forum. I don't even know how many claims are there. Only in my personal album there are 786 images used only for bounty claims. Currently in the bounty claims database there are 216 posts. Each post contain claims from one, two or even three combat situations. Assuming that there are around 300 combat situations there that resulted in bounty claims, I am more than sure I can deliver you more than 200 examples when our forces were outnumbered, fighting fair or with only a slight advantage. But I won't do it as I have a life. Cheer up and don't let your personal grudges take the best of you.
To Govedo (concerning application to become official faction): Most of the points have been already made. We want to be independent from the BHG and especially the Core. We want to be able to shape our diplomatic relations by ourselves. We obviously also want officialdom due to our vanity. And there is another really important thing. As far as we were told in 4.86 ID changes will effectively cut us from BHG capital ships. This will mean that EDGE will need to cut EDG from its name. We obviously don't want this to happen.
In short:
We gank. We fight fair. We are ganked. We are given fair fights.
And this won't really change.
And again, there is no EDGE (as a concept) without capital ships.
To Chopper (concerning bringing capital ships to House systems): This isn't really a problem. First of all I don't see a point of hunting single snub targets in a capital ship. Any snub can outrun a capital ship. Using capital ships to hunt individual targets in house systems would be a terrible waste of time and resources. Using gunboats and gunships to hunt individual snub targets is pointless too. Second of all every major House is not happy with foreign capital ships in their realm. Rheinlanders just shoot them, Bretonians ask them politely to leave, and Libertonians combine those two approaches. As an official faction, relying on governmental contracts, we would not endanger our relationships and agreements by bringing capital ships to someone's house space uninvited. Also during the eight months of our presence here we used capital ships only in three places: Tau region to fight Outcasts, Omega region to fight Red Hessians and Magellan and Cortez to keep in check Lane Hacker Destroyer that was fending off our gunships and gunboats. Actually there was only one engagement in Magellan and it were indie Liberty Rogue cruiser and several gunboats pirating traders there. We used a Thresher and a bomber to destroy them. If it would be required then capital ship use could be restricted to non-House systems like with the current guard ID. We need them only for Taus and Omegas anyway. However, I would prefer not to have this restriction to be able to actually move the ships from one sector of Sirius to another with a permission of local governments. Right now if we move our capital ships from Taus to Omegas we need to take a route through several hostile guard systems or try to sneak through Alpha.
To Alley and eightdashbracket (concerning again capital ships and the Core): Please, read our writeup. If you don't have the time to read it, just read the first section and the F.A.Q.. Or at least pay attention to the answers I am giving from this account. InRP we are a splinter group of BHG and Core that evolved into full-fledged independent lawful PMC. If the proposal of such faction on a Mercenary ID is accepted, then we don't need any InRP or ooRP permission from the BHG or Core to use their ships. Everything that is in the faction proposal is being granted. Additionally, as far as I am concerned, there is simply and brutally no chance of BHG Core giving us InRP or ooRP anything of their stuff. And once again a single capital ship is not a solution. It just wastes the idea of EDG deployments.
To Govedo (concerning fair fights): We are ganking players. We are giving them fair fights. We are ganked. We are given fair fights. And we will continue to do both things. And other people will continue to do both things. Because both of them are fun at times. And both of them are appropriate depending on the circumstances. Personally sometimes I even ask to be ganked. If you say that you have never seen a fair fight from our side, then I must reply that your perspective is narrow. Additionally your judgement might be biased because you have been killed by some of our members. Obviously you can say the same about me. However, I am in the better position as I have hard proofs and can give you counterexamples from our vast archives of bounty claims. These are couple of examples of situations that I consider to be more than fair fights.
2 EDGE fighters against 3 Corsair fighters in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 1 Corsair fighter and 2 Corsair cruisers in the shooting range of Cadiz
2 EDGE light bombers against 2 Corsair turret gunboats flying in formation in the open space
3 EDGE light gunships against 4 Hogosha bombers, 5 Hogosha fighters, one AI cruiser and one KNF destroyer (not that there was some reengagement on the opponents' side)
1 EDGE gunboat against 3 Liberty Rogue and Outcast bombers
1 EDGE bomber against 2 Liberty Rogue bombers and 4 Liberty Rogue and Outcast gunboats
Well, in every of the situation above our forces were weaker than our opponents and managed to prevail without losses. I don't want it to sound like we are boasting. We are certainly not. We have several experienced PVP'ers but most of our members are rather moderately skilled. What I want to say is that your claim is completely untrue. We have archives of all our bounty claims on our external forum. I don't even know how many claims are there. Only in my personal album there are 786 images used only for bounty claims. Currently in the bounty claims database there are 216 posts. Each post contain claims from one, two or even three combat situations. Assuming that there are around 300 combat situations there that resulted in bounty claims, I am more than sure I can deliver you more than 200 examples when our forces were outnumbered, fighting fair or with only a slight advantage. But I won't do it as I have a life. Cheer up and don't let your personal grudges take the best of you.
To Govedo (concerning application to become official faction): Most of the points have been already made. We want to be independent from the BHG and especially the Core. We want to be able to shape our diplomatic relations by ourselves. We obviously also want officialdom due to our vanity. And there is another really important thing. As far as we were told in 4.86 ID changes will effectively cut us from BHG capital ships. This will mean that EDGE will need to cut EDG from its name. We obviously don't want this to happen.
In short:
We gank. We fight fair. We are ganked. We are given fair fights.
And this won't really change.
And again, there is no EDGE (as a concept) without capital ships.
replies by Guszaban
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - boavista - 06-08-2011
' Wrote:To Daedric (concerning throwing away capital ships): What you suggest is not an option. Capital ships are integral part of our roleplay background and offered defense solutions. While the snub swarm is able to handle everything except solaris battleships swarm, in order to be able in roleplay and out of roleplay to deploy heavy defense groups, we need access to capital ships. Personally I hate flying them all... I mean the whole two I have. But without capital ships EDGE would be just Mandalorians or Reavers Lite, with a lawful alignment.
I didn't suggest throwing them away. I suggested not using them until such a time as your faction proposal is made official. You have the fact you use and want to continue using those cap ships in your proposal, that means if you get approved you are clear to use them.
You won't be made official using the BHG ID, the Merc ID is your best bet, but that means you must make a sacrifice in order to get to your goal. It isn't a permanent sacrifice either. Does not using anything bigger than a gunboat really have that much impact on your role play? Really?
Daedric btw. Too many damn accounts.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Montezuma/Kukulcan - 06-08-2011
' Wrote:To Govedo (concerning application to become official faction): Most of the points have been already made. We want to be independent from the BHG and especially the Core. We want to be able to shape our diplomatic relations by ourselves. We obviously also want officialdom due to our vanity. And there is another really important thing. As far as we were told in 4.86 ID changes will effectively cut us from BHG capital ships. This will mean that EDGE will need to cut EDG from its name. We obviously don't want this to happen.
Then you want to be using the Merc ID, the BHG| and BHG|Core set the diplomacy for the BHG/Core ID as the representative official faction.
Also, you would still probably be able to maintain the lawful PMC look with the Merc ID simply by using BHG ships and guns, and working exclusively for lawful groups. The ID is just one of the factors that govern your public image, RP, ships, guns, diplomatic alignment and others all have a much greater impact on how you're seen as a faction.
EDIT: One other thing, if you were going to use the Merc ID, you'd probably need to SRP the use of caps BEFORE requesting official status, otherwise you cant really say "But they're on our list of used ships" when you can't actually use them.
Emergency Defense Group Enterprise - Jack_Henderson - 06-08-2011
I support the move. Good luck! =) And stay nice with IMG! *grins*